Formal Wear Primer

Tony in Tarzana · Sep 18, 2006

I'll have to try to find one. I remember reading that Ronald Reagan had a short neck, too, and his tailor had some tricks to work around it.

Tomasso · Sep 18, 2006

Tony in Tarzana said:
I'll have to try to find one. I remember reading that Ronald Reagan had a short neck, too, and his tailor had some tricks to work around it.

Most RTW wing collar shirts have a low stand (band) but if you need something lower a shirtmaker would be able to lower the stand, for a nominal fee. Personally, I don't care for the look of a wing collar with a DJ but it's a matter personal preference.

Mr. Rover · Sep 19, 2006

Marc Chevalier said:
True, but I'd wear one anyway. Just a personal preference, I guess.

.

Really? I'd feel too padded in the gut area with all those layers.

Mr. Rover · Sep 19, 2006

Powerhouse said:
Oh yes, I might wear a sb white dinner jacket ... I gotta check it all out when i get home today...

Ghos7a55assin, I haven't forgot about that jacket for ya...I will get pics soon.

Sweet! Thanks, Powerhouse!

Powerhouse · Sep 19, 2006

Eureka....

I've got it!

After trying on a batch of different items, I am going with a white double breasted belted jacket with pleated patch pockets & high waisted flat front black trousers w/grosgrain ribbon. Lightweight white shirt with pleated bib, french cuffs and regular shirt collar. Diamond shirt studs, silver and carnelian deco cuff links, black suspenders, black bow tie, black madison shoes and white deco scarf. And i'll top it off with a skimmer w/black ribbon. I'm also going to wear various other acc. like watch & chain, carnation, pocket square, merschaum pipe, etc. In case any one gave a rat's arse. HAHAHA.

THIS WILL BE SUCH A SPLENDID EVENING!!!! PLAN ON DANCING AND ENJOYING PLENTY OF FINE SPIRITS...AND HOW!!! See ya all there.

Marc Chevalier · Sep 19, 2006

I forgot to mention that in the golden era, some single and double-breasted summer dinner jackets (with shawl collars) were made of Palm Beach Cloth in DOVE GREY. They look smashing with dark burgundy bowties.

.

Orgetorix · Sep 27, 2006

Ghos7a55assin said:
My 1920's dinner jacket, which is single breasted with peaked lapels, doesn't have a buttoniere hole. Instead, it has a slight break between the collar and lapel where you insert the flower. There is a thread between the collar and lapel and some elastic on the reverse side of the pale to hold the flower in place.

Thanks for those photos, Ray! That's a great idea to keep in mind for when I'm wearing borrowed/rented jackets (peak lapel, obviously) that don't have real working lapel buttonholes. Just a needle, thread, and a pin, and one has a proper boutonniere. Might look strange with a fake buttonhole sitting there below, but not as strange as the hateful flower pinned one's lapel.

Happy Stroller · Oct 3, 2006

Marc Chevalier said:
Back in the Golden Era a set of dress studs meant a pair of matching cufflinks, two or three shirt studs, and four waistcoat button studs. Everything was identical except in size. Generally, white tie and tails called for cufflinks, shirt studs and waistcoat button studs of mother-of-pearl in a platinum setting. (See photo below.) Black tie usually called for onyx or black enamel in a white gold setting.
:

.

==================== End of quote ======================

My, those 4 waistcoat button studs look impressive. I think they'll overwhelm the 3 tiny shirt studs. "Why are your waistcoat studs so big, Granny?" asked LRRH.

4 waistcoat button studs, that's interesting. How did we end up with the contemporary standard 3-stud white waistcoat for White Tie functions, I wonder?

Marc Chevalier · Oct 3, 2006

The waistcoat button studs are a good size for waistcoats. They don't overwhelm the shirtstuds.

In the U.S.A., evening waistcoats (both single and double-breasted) had 4 buttons throughout the 'teens and 1920s. Earlier than that, some double-breasted evening waistcoats had as many as 6 buttons. Jumping forward to the '30s, some "superswanky" double-breasted evening waistcoats had only 2 buttons. Single-breasted evening waistcoats were more consistent: they generally stayed with 4 buttons until the 1950s, when 3 buttons became (and remain) the standard, and detachable waistcoat button studs went the way of the Dodo bird. Why? Who knows?

.

Tony in Tarzana · Oct 11, 2006

I'm leaning towards white tie and tails for the QM, at least on Friday night. I've just watched "Top Hat" starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers and featuring the wonderful Edward Everett Horton. As a formal wear primer, especially for white tie, that movie is hard to beat.

This website has tail coats and evening trousers and waitscoats which might be useable with the right accessories, and they have my size. http://www.finetuxedos.com/Pages/package.aspx?CatID=27

Unfortunately, they refer to an evening tail coat as "Tuxedo Tails" but they seem to get the proportions right. Perhaps they've seen the movie? Their evening waistcoats seem to match what Fred and Edward wear save for the lack of provison for waistcoat studs.

They do not, however, have detachable collar shirts. Those have proven more elusive, at least on the Web.

Orgetorix · Oct 11, 2006

Tony in Tarzana said:
They do not, however, have detachable collar shirts. Those have proven more elusive, at least on the Web.

The Vintage Shirt Company has marcella (pique)-front evening shirts for detachable collars available in sizes up to a 19" neck.

For the collars themselves, Luke Eyres has two different wing models.

More resources regarding detachable collar shirts available here: http://davidpihl.bravehost.com/tunic/Tunic_Shirts_and_Detachabl.htm

Tony in Tarzana · Oct 11, 2006

Thanks for the tips!

Another question I have is, do the collar studs show? Do they need to match the shirt and waistcoat studs and cuff links?

Marc Chevalier · Oct 12, 2006

Tony, there are two types of collar studs: the front stud and the back stud.

The front stud is the bigger of the two. It has a wide, flat "button" that rests against the front of your throat. In antique collar studs, this button was made of mother-of-pearl, bone, or creamy celluloid -- materials that wouldn't react badly with your skin. Portruding from the button is a (usually) brass, (usually) round ball that looks like a small BB. This ball is pushed through the shirt collarband's front buttonholes, and then through the collar's front buttonholes.

The back stud is smaller. It usually has a brass button, since the button does not come into direct contact with the nape of your neck' skin. Instead, the button rests against the fabric of your shirt's collarband. Sticking out of the button is a flat, round brass "plate" which looks like a large nailhead. This "nailhead" is pushed through the shirt collarband's back buttonhole, and then through the collar's back buttonhole.

The collar studs do not have to match anything else. In the case of wing collars, the front collar stud usually isn't seen, as the tie (or bowtie) knot covers it. The back collar stud can sometimes peep out above or below the tie's band, but usually it remains hidden underneath the tie.

Any questions?

.

John in Covina · Oct 23, 2006

Formal Wear and Franklin Pangborn

A great style and a great actor.

manton · Oct 23, 2006

That's rare to see a bow tie with day formal wear. In fact, I can't recall ever seeing it until now.

scotrace · Nov 13, 2006

Odd Shirt?

I've just gotten a stiff bib-front shirt with single cuffs that buttons up the back.
Appears to be '30's. Sanforized, and a separate collar.

What gives?

Orgetorix · Nov 13, 2006

scotrace said:
I've just gotten a stiff bib-front shirt with single cuffs that buttons up the back.
Appears to be '30's. Sanforized, and a separate collar.

What gives?

Probably an evening shirt for wear with full dress (tails). Having a shirt button up the back was a sign that you had a valet to help you get dressed.

Braxton36 · Nov 13, 2006

I have an English formalwear shirt (pique with a bib front) that buttons in the back with a detachable collar as well. Damnably difficult on nights when the butler has the night off...

I think if you try it on, you might find that you can button the bottom few buttons and possibly the top one below the collar stud. That leaves a bit of a gap in the center but you'll probably have a coat on anyway so no one will know. Think twice about having someone button it all the way up for you unless the same someone is willing to unbutton it as well... doesn't make for a comfortable nightshirt.

Sign me: Slept in one before

Marc Chevalier · Nov 13, 2006

The reason for having a stiff-bosom dress shirt that buttons up the back? Elementary, my dear Scotrace. A stiff bosom that is fused completely shut cannot have one side or the other pucker or billow out (with only the studs to keep the sides together). I've worn both front-buttoning and back-buttoning stiff-bosom shirts, and I swear by the latter. The bosom stays smooth. (Didn't mean to make it sound that sexy

)

They really started to be in fashion (in the U.S.A.) in the 1920s and continued into the 1940s.

.

scotrace · Nov 13, 2006

Bibbby

So in this instance, studs are eliminated altogether from the shirt front? Nifty.
Thanks!

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