Ever think some jackets are overhyped

Rgcards · Feb 14, 2021

Im from detroit, gotta love buco but that spiegel jacket is the best spent 120$ I can imagine

Blackadder · Feb 14, 2021

Will Zach said:
I meant the hype of Buco pricing. Here is a Spiegel horsehide cross-zip from 1940s (dated by sleeve zippers), much rarer than a Buco, and I like it better than a Buco. Price? $120. No hype though....

View attachment 309963

I think that is what a lot of people especially sellers got wrong. Buco pricing is because of hype on a specific model. Not all Buco cost that much. I have seen lots of PJ-27 or J-27 selling for much much less than a thousand. Of course we still see lots of listings of all kinds of Buco on ebay etc for over a 1000 but most of those have zero taker for months and remain so. That is true even for the repro as a second hand RM J-25 may have no taker at over USD 700 on Yahoo auction JP but a second hand RM J-24 costing USD 700 would be gone in seconds.
BTW, an Indian Motorcycle ranger is rarer and actually cost more than a Buco in the collectors' circle. And since there are too many brands selling perfecto style jackets, most don't fetch a high price except Durable.

Monitor · Feb 14, 2021

Will Zach said:
I meant the hype of Buco pricing. Here is a Spiegel horsehide cross-zip from 1940s (dated by sleeve zippers), much rarer than a Buco, and I like it better than a Buco. Price? $120. No hype though....

View attachment 309963

That's a whole other can of worms, one best not even opening at this point. That jacket you're wearing absolutely annihilates anything Buco in terms of coolness, style, cut, etc. Check out that proper Rock'n'roll collar, top sleeve zips, etc. etc. I'd trade half of my jackets for something like this but yeah... You can find it for $200-$300 tops. If it wasn't for Tanaka's book, Buco'd cost as much as Sears cross zip (another brilliant jacket). That's purely pretend-pricing right there.

Fantastic jacket, man.

jeo · Feb 14, 2021

Rgcards said:
...I see the negativity has risen considerably. Thanks

...I didn't want to name the manufacturer at all but sort of got shamed into it. I have stressed over and over to the point of being mocked...

Don't know if you were talking about my previous post, but it was most certainly not meant as a mockery, just a fun poke as I had no idea what you were getting at after reading your first two posts. If you took it as such, I apologize. If you weren't talking about my post, then I'm sure I can speak for others that no one intended to mock you. That isn't what TFL is about.

I also see zero negativity throughout this thread. Just passionate people discussing the things we love passionately (and sometimes disagreeing). That's all. I don't see TFL as a place of negativity. Some other forums, absolutely. That's why I love TFL and keep coming back here. We can disagree and even argue with each other, but people still have respect for one another. I would hate for TFL to become one of those places on the internet where no one can say anything bad about anything or anyone and no one can disagree and it becomes an echo chamber.

And being shamed into revealing the maker...cmon man, what did you expect when making the post?

Anyway, I'm happy you made this post...this is great, healthy discussion and I welcome it!

Superfluous · Feb 14, 2021

Too many sage comments to count or acknowledge. This is an impressive thread, both in terms of content and tone, which exemplifies the respect and civility that are hallmarks of TFL. Considerable disagreement – as there should be – but all shared in a dignified and deferential manner. What a great community!

Rgcards · Feb 14, 2021

I didn't mean mean spirited mockery. Teased would have been more accurate

jonesy86 · Feb 14, 2021

I like my Himel Heron.

dudewuttheheck · Feb 14, 2021

Monitor said:
Not to sound arrogant (tho I will) but I'd say that at this point, I absolutely can tell what makes a good leather jacket vs. bad one just by looking at a photo. And I know I'm not the only one.
Seeing Greg's work in such a detail, zoomed in on Instagram or by watching Youtube videos of his jackets, is more than enough for anyone who's been thru as many of these stupid things as I have, to draw very accurate conclusion on the overall quality.

This. I too feel that I can generally tell if a jacket is well patterned and well made or not just from a decent amount of photos. I'm sure a few of us who have owned and handled enough jackets feel the same way by this point. Am I still learning more? Of course, but I can get a general idea pretty well now just from seeing pictures now.

Jin431 · Feb 15, 2021

nick123 said:
Just saying there are some very fine cows, or goats out there.

Who offers a really nice goatskin jacket? I've never had luck with goatskins

sweetfights · Feb 15, 2021

Superfluous said:
What a s**t-show of a thread.

@Rgcards – I immediately knew that you were referring to a Himel jacket. Are Himel jackets worth $2,500? Not by any stretch of the imagination. FWIW, I never paid over $1,900 for any of my six Himel jackets (all purchased new from Himel) and they still were not worth the price paid. Not one of my Himel jackets is perfect. Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy them. Don’t ask me to explain.

With the possible exception of @ton312 's Zara jacket, every jacket on this forum is overhyped to some degree. I love JC as much as anyone – great guy – but my two GW jackets are both palpably flawed. One has a significant flaw that I see every time I wear the jacket. Thus, GW is as overhyped as any other brand. Yet, I thoroughly enjoy my two GW jackets. Again, don’t ask me to explain.

My new FCL jacket is very well made, but currently at the tailor because it is flawed.

Aero is a favorite child of this forum and I really like Ken. That said, I owned two Aeros and they both were spectacularly flawed – so much so that I quickly sold both. FL is the current brand du jour. I love Greg’s model and methods. That said, his jackets are also palpably flawed. FWIW, I still might purchase a FL jacket, but not because it is devoid of flaws. JL is another popular brand, but also palpably flawed. Even the exalted FW jackets are flawed.

Some cite Vanson as a benchmark of value. Maybe so, but I personally find Vanson’s seam construction, devoid of top stitching, profoundly banal and unappealing. Moreover, when there is no top stitching, flawed stitching is difficult to discern.

In short, all the jackets discussed here are over-hyped. The point of diminishing returns is likely well below $1,000 – probably below $500. I cannot justify any of my jacket purchases based on value. I overpaid for all of them based in part on hype.

I could continue ad nauseam (perhaps I am already there). Needless to say, I never read the book “How to Make Friends and Influence People,” and I likely further alienated myself with this frank post. So be it.

Ok, you convinced me. For Sale: two spectacularly over-hyped Himel Frobishers and two equally over-hyped Himel Kensingtons.

What are you having modified on the FCL jacket?

“How to Make Friends and Influence People” might not be what you think it is. Fantastic book, although you may or may not "need" it.

sweetfights · Feb 15, 2021

Seb Lucas said:
It is also interesting how a particular maker or object builds a small following (and often becomes cultish on a forum) because it is pretty good and then it suddenly explodes. Prices go up, everyone starts to talk about it and then, inevitably, some people start to turn against it. But in the end no product is perfect for everyone.

Always in cycles!

torfjord · Feb 15, 2021

Jin431 said:
Who offers a really nice goatskin jacket? I've never had luck with goatskins

I’m a huge fan of goat but I have only had two new goat jackets. You had a Fivestar goat but you didn’t like it right? I actually think that it’s pretty nice. Except for the colour which is a little flat and a bit too dark for a seal brown.
I had an Aero goat jacket too which was nice as well. Much better colour than the Fivestar imo, although the grain is better on the Fivestar goat.
They are both put to shame by the vintage Swedish goat that I’ve handled. Thick and heavy and and grainy but with amazing drape. I have two myself and bought one that I sent on to @Carlos840.
I don’t know if any modern maker has a similar goat offering.

red devil · Feb 15, 2021

Jin431 said:
Who offers a really nice goatskin jacket? I've never had luck with goatskins

I really like my Thedi one

Marc mndt · Feb 15, 2021

If there's positive hype here on TFL, then there's definitively also negative hype.

I've just posted my thoughts about this in another thread.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...tive-to-a-leather-jacket.103400/#post-2778002

Imuricecreamman · Feb 15, 2021

We're doing God's work here with our hype here, people. Greg Fields gets to pursue his dream of making jackets and Stu.. Making jackets and insult people

Jin431 · Feb 15, 2021

torfjord said:
I’m a huge fan of goat but I have only had two new goat jackets. You had a Fivestar goat but you didn’t like it right? I actually think that it’s pretty nice. Except for the colour which is a little flat and a bit too dark for a seal brown.
I had an Aero goat jacket too which was nice as well. Much better colour than the Fivestar imo, although the grain is better on the Fivestar goat.
They are both put to shame by the vintage Swedish goat that I’ve handled. Thick and heavy and and grainy but with amazing drape. I have two myself and bought one that I sent on to @Carlos840.
I don’t know if any modern maker has a similar goat offering.

I had a seal goatskin from 5* and I have a chrome tanned goatskin from JL that I kept for now but I'll probably move it in later on as well. I've seen that nice Swedish goatskin you have and t Mitchell also has nice looking vintage ones. Agreed, those older jackets look better for some reason that today's offering. Maybe I should look into a vintage goatskin so I can appreciate it more.

red devil said:
I really like my Thedi one

Thank you, I'll look into that. Theo still hasn't gotten back to me in 2 weeks so still waiting

JMax · Feb 15, 2021

Jin431 said:
I had a seal goatskin from 5* and I have a chrome tanned goatskin from JL that I kept for now but I'll probably move it in later on as well. I've seen that nice Swedish goatskin you have and t Mitchell also has nice looking vintage ones. Agreed, those older jackets look better for some reason that today's offering. Maybe I should look into a vintage goatskin so I can appreciate it more.

Thank you, I'll look into that. Theo still hasn't gotten back to me in 2 weeks so still waiting

I would bet that many of the vintage goat looks better bc it’s been worn over a long period. Some of the older Langlitz goat looks good. I agree with you though, not my first choice in hide. I’ll go for a thicker hide, and “prettier” to my eye, for riding, etc.

Jin431 · Feb 15, 2021

JMax said:
I would bet that many of the vintage goat looks better bc it’s been worn over a long period. Some of the older Langlitz goat looks good. I agree with you though, not my first choice in hide. I’ll go for a thicker hide, and “prettier” to my eye, for riding, etc.

The grains on those old goat looks different, they look really good,
I was guessing maybe goatskin is so strong and so abrasion resistant it might take forever to show wear plus the grains of the jacket I have is so fine it looks too uniform. Agreed I won't be getting a goatskin as a first choice too, I'd rather go for cow/horse/deerskin but I'll eventually want to experience trying on a moose/bison at one point.

JMax · Feb 15, 2021

Yeah. All I’ve read is that goat is super abrasion resistant and as such the perfect MC gear. It can be thinner, lighter, easier to wear and still protect the rider in case of dismount. But to me, the pros don’t outweigh the cons. So I’ve sold off a few goat jackets. Like you, I just prefer other hides.

If I find a LW moose in my size that isn’t instantaneously sniped by one of a few TFL members (they know exactly who they are lol), I wouldn’t hesitate. Or LW deer.

Carlos840 · Feb 15, 2021

Jin431 said:
The grains on those old goat looks different, they look really good,
I was guessing maybe goatskin is so strong and so abrasion resistant it might take forever to show wear plus the grains of the jacket I have is so fine it looks too uniform. Agreed I won't be getting a goatskin as a first choice too, I'd rather go for cow/horse/deerskin but I'll eventually want to experience trying on a moose/bison at one point.

Old Swedish goatskin is insane too.
Super thick, heavy, great grain, very supple.

It's my only goatskin jacket but it really impressed me.
Got a goatskin Norshore in the post, wonder how that will compare.

the Norshore to compare:

Ever think some jackets are overhyped

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