So trivial, yet it really ticks you off.

BobHufford said:

It's official on dictionary.com. Ugh ...

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I suggest they take that one suppositively.

Harp said:

A Doctorate in Judicial Science? In the States, the Juris Doctor is equivalent to the Bacihelor of Law,
with various specialty Master degrees such as taxation tossed in the sheepskin fold. I'd enjoy an online SJD program.

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Not a PhD / LLD, no - an LLM we run (Master of Laws). The set-up for law is different in the UK: here, Law is available as an undergraduate, thee-year primary degree (LLB). The LLM is a further, one-year programme in a specialist field of law typically. We don't as of yet offer full distance learning on a PhD programme. As things sit, there are research courses and so on that students must undertake in their first year, though thereafter as long as the supervisor is happy they are meeting regularly.... I had a PhD student a few years ago who flew in from Israel every so often to meetings, but did all her main writing at home. There have been discussions about a distance PhD for some time, though I suspect we'll see it come up more favourably soon, given that the last year has proven much to be possible that was previously written off. The main issue is always going to be ensuring the individual did the wok themselves, but that's the case with everything other than putting them in an exam room.

We do have a sort-of equivalent of the JD; it's known as a Senior Status programme, a sort of top-up on top of another undergraduate degree. Students on that one take the key elements of a law degree over two years (with a heavier workload during those years, even if they take fewer credits overall). It's a much smaller programme, though, given the availability here of law as a primary undergraduate degree programme; mostly the students have taken their undergrad degree elsewhere and want to switch to law, English law in particular (often they are US or Canadian students who want to stay in the UK to practice after they finish).

tonyb said:

Gotta wonder what effect online schooling will have on the mating rituals of juvenalus americanus.

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The pre-pandemic home-schooling demographic might provide some guidance on that, albeit that adjustment may be required for the proportion thereof that do so for religious reasons if significantly different.

Edward said:

Not a PhD / LLD, no - an LLM we run (Master of Laws). The set-up for law is different in the UK: here, Law is available as an undergraduate, thee-year primary degree (LLB). The LLM is a further, one-year programme in a specialist field of law typically. We don't as of yet offer full distance learning on a PhD programme. As things sit, there are research courses and so on that students must undertake in their first year, though thereafter as long as the supervisor is happy they are meeting regularly.... I had a PhD student a few years ago who flew in from Israel every so often to meetings, but did all her main writing at home. There have been discussions about a distance PhD for some time, though I suspect we'll see it come up more favourably soon, given that the last year has proven much to be possible that was previously written off. The main issue is always going to be ensuring the individual did the wok themselves, but that's the case with everything other than putting them in an exam room.

We do have a sort-of equivalent of the JD; it's known as a Senior Status programme, a sort of top-up on top of another undergraduate degree. Students on that one take the key elements of a law degree over two years (with a heavier workload during those years, even if they take fewer credits overall). It's a much smaller programme, though, given the availability here of law as a primary undergraduate degree programme; mostly the students have taken their undergrad degree elsewhere and want to switch to law, English law in particular (often they are US or Canadian students who want to stay in the UK to practice after they finish).

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May I ask the name of institution?

BobHufford said:

It's official on dictionary.com. Ugh ...

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Ahh. The sin of supposition strikes yet again. Complacency of soul breeds grammatic licensure to kill the English language.

Edward said:

... that adjustment may be required for the proportion thereof that do so for religious reasons if significantly different.

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The reasons were largely if not entirely religious in the case of the few homeschoolers of my acquaintance, with the exception of one parent whose motive appeared to be his own sense of superiority. It was fortunate for his kid that the vanity project was short-lived.

I knew one “parent” (an aunt, really, who was raising her flaky sister’s daughters) who sent her kids to Catholic schools because she strongly objected to the sex-ed curriculum in the public schools (and, I suspect, because the public schools were just too colorful for her). She also had a real hangup about gayness, and really, sex in general. She was much more comfortable with all that being a sin. Served her right that one of those girls turned out to be one of those girls.

Harp said:

May I ask the name of institution?

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Thanks again for the pm Edward. The pandemic has definitely changed things around, not all for the better,
but some new innovations have emerged and distance learning has proven practical.

tonyb said:

The reasons were largely if not entirely religious in the case of the few homeschoolers of my acquaintance, with the exception of one parent whose motive appeared to be his own sense of superiority. It was fortunate for his kid that the vanity project was short-lived.

I knew one “parent” (an aunt, really, who was raising her flaky sister’s daughters) who sent her kids to Catholic schools because she strongly objected to the sex-ed curriculum in the public schools (and, I suspect, because the public schools were just too colorful for her). She also had a real hangup about gayness, and really, sex in general. She was much more comfortable with all that being a sin. Served her right that one of those girls turned out to be one of those girls.

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I have a couple of homeschooled friends -- one was for strictly religious reasons, and the other was for political reasons (her folks were Birchers), but they both seem to have emerged from the experience reasonably well-adjusted. The first was only homeschooled for a couple of years before returning to the public schools, and the other finally graduated from a small private high school.

The latter's understanding of certain topics -- especially American history -- tends to be highly colored by the political slant she was raised in, to the point where she'll often gape at me with astonishment when I point out that, for example, people often died for lack of medical attention they couldn't afford "back in the good old days." And she'll flat out tell me I'm wrong when I point out, in fact, that the actual Depression was not like what you saw in "The Waltons."

There was a lot I didn't enjoy about my own school experience --especially the cliques and the drama -- but I'm glad I didn't grow up being spoon-fed a highly-selective understanding of the world.

LizzieMaine said:

There was a lot I didn't enjoy about my own school experience --especially the cliques and the drama -- but I'm glad I didn't grow up being spoon-fed a highly-selective understanding of the world.

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My catholic school was brutal in it's use of corporal punishment, but for academic teaching it really raised the barre. When I was fourteen I spent a year in hospital recovering from a hit and run collision, one of the priests, a head of department as he was known, would read up on my course work, come to the hospital and teach me, one to one. After my recovery I was offered a return to school but had to drop a year to catch up.

Catch up? I was ahead thanks to all that one to one, I left school and went on to complete my education at a local college after which I attended Queen Mary College in London.

Catholic schools did go in for dogma, but then again, it was the same in their churches and debate was not on the agenda. At school I tried to argue about marriage and clerics marrying. After all for the first eleven hundred years, from priests to popes, they all got married. But the counter argument went along the lines of: "You little heathen," slap, slap, slap. You would get a slap with every syllable. It didn't take long to shut up and say nothing.

GHT said:

My catholic school was brutal in it's use of corporal punishment, but for academic teaching it really raised the barre.
Catholic schools did go in for dogma, but then again, it was the same in their churches and debate was not on the agenda.

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I schooled under the Christian Brothers of Ireland, corporal punishment administered via razor strop, slaps,
wooden board paddles, closed fists. Scholastically, excellence reigned supreme, but somewhere early on
I encountered too much the hidden guise of cruelty, and they lost me. I had very little interest in either
academics or organized activities; outside of detention, I spent little time on school campus once classes
ended for the day. I finished at the bottom of my class, a disciplinary and scholastic failure.
The local draft board notice, Army induction, slated Infantry and Vietnam. And my test scores caught
some interest, initially took me out of the Southeast Asia slot for West Point, but the high school transcript
ended cadetship and I rerouted back to Vietnam. The US Army turned me around academically.
After discharge I spent an inordinate amount of time either in college, grad school, or reading on my own
before law school and more time reading thereafter. And I wrote a novel and another book.
Cannot tell a book by its cover.

_____________

It's Madness! Wichita State fell to Drake, 53-52 tonite. The Shockers are one of my favorite teams...

Catholic school. It was the worst of times. It was the best of times.

I started out at an urban Catholic school in First Grade with a lay teacher who mainly taught the 45 kids crammed into the class by rote. I'd go home in the afternoon and start homework immediately. A brief break for supper, and then back to the books, winding up at nine or ten for bedtime. My parents really pushed me but the result was that by year's end I was reading at a Third Grade level.

We bought a home in the burbs and in October of Second Grade I was put into a suburban public school. Smaller class, a teacher who was actually credentialed, and a brand new school facility. I performed at the head of my class and was completely happy... so, of course, it couldn't last.

The local Catholic school had Third to Eighth Grade, so it was back to overcrowded classrooms and learning by rote. Absolutely hated it. Was a social misfit with few friends. Odd thing is that I became good friends with several classmates as we were well into our fifties. The nuns were not abusive so much as they were inept. Most were not even college grads. Again: teaching by rote and instructors who had to look at the back of their teacher's editions for the answers.

High school/ prep school was a Jesuit experience. Corporal punishment was not front and center: more that likely, if a kid was a bad actor he'd simply be expelled. For the most part, there was an appeal to our better nature. A very geographically and socioeconomically diverse student body. Some snooty rich kids, but enough decent people to make it worthwhile. Rigorous academics: 99% of us went on to a four year college degree. As a Jesuit educated Protestant I have to conclude that no Protestant denomination of which I am aware of demands the degree of pre- ordination educational preparation which the Society of Jesus demands. It was the finest school experience of my life, before or since.

Things have changed drastically since then: the grade school is no more, and the prep school is coed. Very few Jesuit teachers are left at the school, and tuition is much costlier.

My wife sometimes asks "What would you be if you hadn't met me?" Sometimes I answer "A Jesuit Priest." (I'm a protestant, BTW.)

Those last three responses more or less underline the reason why catholic churches no longer pack them in. Being taught that God is love and getting that message across with a metaphoric strop/cane/wooden paddle does give out mixed messages. As far as the Vincentian Fathers of my former school are concerned, we are all going to hell in a hand cart. Talk about, "And lead us not into temptation." No need, I know a short cut.

GHT said:

Those last three responses more or less underline the reason why catholic churches no longer pack them in. Being taught that God is love and getting that message across with a metaphoric strop/cane/wooden paddle does give out mixed messages. As far as the Vincentian Fathers of my former school are concerned, we are all going to hell in a hand cart. Talk about, "And lead us not into temptation." No need, I know a short cut.

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I remember one of the Chaplains at university - a Presbyterian, no less - who used to endlessly bemoan the "you'll go to hell" line of the fire and brimstone set. Surely, he reasoned, the best way to get people interested would have been a few choice lines from Song of Solomon and a 'want to know more?'

Catholic secondary schools in my day in Northern Ireland were notorious for two things: iron discipline and high quality education. Many were highly competitive with the best of the state Grammar schools. Of course, the flipside of de facto segregated education was the space for certain social divisions to be perpetuated. Fortunately there's been a fair level of change on that front since my day, even if there's still some way to go.

GHT said:

Those last three responses more or less underline the reason why catholic churches no longer pack them in. Being taught that God is love and getting that message across with a metaphoric strop/cane/wooden paddle does give out mixed messages. As far as the Vincentian Fathers of my former school are concerned, we are all going to hell in a hand cart. Talk about, "And lead us not into temptation." No need, I know a short cut.

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The pervasive cruelty I encountered with the Christian Brothers of Ireland and later Jesuitical secularism admittedly
cheapened these particular orders to a lesser degree; however, the Catholic Church bequeathed invaluable lessons
between right and wrong, moral and immoral, and achieving a truthful life compass is a jewel forever held precious.
And, of course, there were, always are, and forever will be the notable exceptions who proved not only their
singularity but memorable reference points throughout life.

I was raised nominally Catholic (long story) but attended public schools through grade 12 and public institutions of higher education (in fits and starts) as well as a Jesuit university that happened to be less than a mile from my house. I found the Jesuit school less academically rigorous, and with lower admissions standards, than its public counterparts, excepting the public community colleges, which accepted most any applicant with a high school diploma.

Alas, as with most enterprises, the primary mission of too many colleges and universities seems to be the schools’ own perpetuation. In a culture that extends childhood dependency well beyond the age of reproductive viability (this is not an argument that it shouldn’t, so put away the guns), there remains a strong market for such enterprises. And in a job market that often requires a bachelor’s degree minimally for positions in only tangentially related (if that) fields, well, the higher-ed hustle’s future looks bright.

Is it any wonder that these for-profit diploma mills have sprung up? Who doesn’t wanna get in on that action?

As to corporal punishments in schools ...

I was happily unaware of such practices in the Wisconsin of my early school years. But in Seattle knocking the kids around and issuing “swats” was common.

Creeps.

Edward said:

I remember one of the Chaplains at university - a Presbyterian, no less - who used to endlessly bemoan the "you'll go to hell" line of the fire and brimstone set. Surely, he reasoned, the best way to get people interested would have been a few choice lines from Song of Solomon and a 'want to know more?' .

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A selection of the singing as I recall is a literal strip tease, this particular passage encountered with my
English master Sloan who stripped all romantic pretense from Romeo & Juliet, lateral pass Shakespeare to Solomon
for the more genuine article. Reading betwixt the lines of literary latitude and longitude proves as profitable as
Andrews Pitchfork drawn across Elliot's Five Wave Count with Fibonacci Retracements 37.5; 50.0; 61.8.

GHT said:

Those last three responses more or less underline the reason why catholic churches no longer pack them in. Being taught that God is love and getting that message across with a metaphoric strop/cane/wooden paddle does give out mixed messages. As far as the Vincentian Fathers of my former school are concerned, we are all going to hell in a hand cart. Talk about, "And lead us not into temptation." No need, I know a short cut.

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It's probably best that corporal punishment had been phased out by the time I started attending school. I wasn't a bruiser, but I was taught from a young age to stand up for myself against bullies and that "if somebody hits you, you hit 'em back, twice as hard!" I was also always taught that respect should be earned, not expected.

Forget detention, I probably would have ended up in juvenile hall.

Bushman said:

It's probably best that corporate punishment had been phased out by the time I started attending school. I wasn't a bruiser, but I was taught from a young age to stand up for myself against bullies and that "if somebody hits you, you hit 'em back, twice as hard!" I was also always taught that respect should be earned, not expected.

Forget detention, I probably would have ended up in juvenile hall.

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Sound instruction but in a strict iron disciplined school with exacting parental approved standards adolescent facial
earlobe-to-collarbone shave, ties knotted at full mast, hair cut short and the first word always "Sir," lines are drawn
tight. Admittedly not always constructive. I can recall a study hall episode where two Christian brothers administered
a baldy sour barbering to a long haired recalcitrant. A picture said a thousand words and we got the message they
weren't kidding. But that was back in the day.

I went to public school, and we didn't have "organized" corporal punishment other than first grade teachers whacking you one across the knuckles with the edge of a ruler if you got out of line -- but that didn't mean teachers didn't get physical. In the seventh grade, I saw a teacher put a kid's head thru a plasterboard wall -- literally picked him up and slammed him into the wall so hard his head cracked a hole into it. It was there for years afterward. In the eighth grade I saw a teacher grab a kid who called him, I believe, a "c---------r," and throw him down a flight of stairs.

This kind of stuff was not uncommon in the schools I went to, but the kids were just as bad -- we had a full complement of glue-sniffers, pot-smokers, thugs, goons, hoods, and pyromaniacs. And that was just in junior high.