Let's Talk About The Fedora Lounge

Foofoogal said:

This is probably not the place or time but I also don't understand the consistency here. Like why did the thread about bidding get moved from the powder room to now the Observation room? It was about buying or not buying vintage clothing. I guess it then moved to finances. Is that why?
Not sure where to go or what to say anymore.

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Just to clear up your mystery Foofoo, I moved the thread.

When conversations in the PR progress to having a more mixed company appeal, they are generally moved to the OB for wider viewership.

LD

KittyT said:

Whenever a group comes together, people enjoy the opportunity to socialize and relate to members of that group on a variety of levels. I see the OB as the forum where the majority of this takes place, and I know there are a lot of members who find this type of socializing general - it helps many [who aren't surrounded by people in their local communities with similar interests] feel like they have a place within a group, and there is some value in that.

I think the easy solution to this problem would be allowing the OB to maintain it's current level of social gab while trying to keep things more on-topic in the rest of the forums. This way, those of us who want content can find it, and those who want to socialize have a place for that too. For people like myself who aren't as into that, we'll just continue to mostly stay out of the OB as we already are. It's easy to deal with if it's limited to one particular forum.

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Ditto.

Almost every forum under the sun will have a 'general' area. I see the OB as this. Sometimes you want to share something, but it relates nothing to lipstick, hats, or the Golden Era. As long as it's not SO ridiculous, I see it as fine. Finer tuning in the other, more specific topics seems like a better solution, in my eyes.

Sorry for the sharpness and long post. I"m reacting to quite a few posts in this one.

The "vintage" focus here is an overall pining for the old days by most of the group, and as a lifestyle. I see this happening in this discussion now, pining for earlier "better" days of the forum, as well. I see this quite often on the forum I moderate. The longtime members who've stuck with the forum over the years, lament the loss of certain friends and discussions. "All those new people who don't know how we do it have run off all the old-timers....." and so forth.

We get the same accusations of favoritism, and much of it comes from familiarity and friendship.People get to know each other, and then meet, so they get a good feel for when a person is really teasing or not, etc. New folks will always see this happening,and really resent it until they're on the inside and have time served on the forum. But it's really a bit difficult to ask people who've become friends to just button it up and stick to topic straight down the line. That's not to say that the mods. don't make mistakes, too. Sometimes there is a tendency to "pile on" it happens. Although I don't post and read here enough to have seen it in action.

Do the bartenders really want an online symposium? If so, why the Queen Mary events every year? Do the conversations on the QM all stick to strictly the hats, then strictly the shoes, then strictly the suits? and so on? Do you all not discuss other things? Do you not share life, break bread together, share a beverage? What, then, is the purpose of the Observation Bar? What is to be "observed?" "The Golden Era" was 40 years ago and more, now.

I know what the bartenders are going through, though, this is a varied, busy forum, with some ridiculously loooooooooooooooong threads. It's not easy in that environment sometimes to stay of good cheer. I was under the mistaken impression by the name of the forum and it's signature logo that it was about hats, mostly, as well. But that's oK.

I've been working hard for YEARS now, and have only been REALLY successful since August, to make my site live up to its name.Cigar Weekly, we've worked hard to actually update at least weekly. I sympathize with the bar tenders in trying to live up to their mission, if the forum isn't accomplishing it (but I think it is.....of course I've mainly confined myself to the new Connoisseur's forum and the Hats forum. There isn't always much to interest me in the OB)

RedPop4 said:

Sorry for the sharpness and long post. I"m reacting to quite a few posts in this one.

The "vintage" focus here is an overall pining for the old days by most of the group, and as a lifestyle. I see this happening in this discussion now, pining for earlier "better" days of the forum, as well. I see this quite often on the forum I moderate. The longtime members who've stuck with the forum over the years, lament the loss of certain friends and discussions. "All those new people who don't know how we do it have run off all the old-timers....." and so forth.

We get the same accusations of favoritism, and much of it comes from familiarity and friendship.People get to know each other, and then meet, so they get a good feel for when a person is really teasing or not, etc. New folks will always see this happening,and really resent it until they're on the inside and have time served on the forum. But it's really a bit difficult to ask people who've become friends to just button it up and stick to topic straight down the line. That's not to say that the mods. don't make mistakes, too. Sometimes there is a tendency to "pile on" it happens. Although I don't post and read here enough to have seen it in action.

Do the bartenders really want an online symposium? If so, why the Queen Mary events every year? Do the conversations on the QM all stick to strictly the hats, then strictly the shoes, then strictly the suits? and so on? Do you all not discuss other things? Do you not share life, break bread together, share a beverage? What, then, is the purpose of the Observation Bar? What is to be "observed?" "The Golden Era" was 40 years ago and more, now.

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Bravo. I've stayed out of the conversation, just reading responses, but you've really nailed the problem I saw in all of this. :eusa_clap I'm new-ish, though, so I'm trying not to put a foot in it when I haven't been here long enough to see how it all works.

jayem said:

Almost every forum under the sun will have a 'general' area. I see the OB as this. Sometimes you want to share something, but it relates nothing to lipstick, hats, or the Golden Era. As long as it's not SO ridiculous, I see it as fine. Finer tuning in the other, more specific topics seems like a better solution, in my eyes.

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I've held off replying to this thread, as I'm guilty of participating in some of those silly threads that seem to be part of the problem.
But I agree with jayem, I've always considered the OB to be the "off-topic" area, and frequently found threads that appealed to my ridiculous sense of humour. Finer tuning in the other areas would be key, as I frequently see threads that (in my opinion, at least) would be better off in the OB. Granted, some of the threads in the OB have gotten rather silly (the costumed squirrel thread for one), but that is part of the fun of it all. Just my two cents.

RedPop4 said:

Do the bartenders really want an online symposium? If so, why the Queen Mary events every year? Do the conversations on the QM all stick to strictly the hats, then strictly the shoes, then strictly the suits? and so on? Do you all not discuss other things? Do you not share life, break bread together, share a beverage? What, then, is the purpose of the Observation Bar? What is to be "observed?" "The Golden Era" was 40 years ago and more, now.

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Oddly enough...having been to 3 QM events, a NY event and various other smaller things, the conversation is a lot more centered on the "Golden Era" then one would think, and certainly centered on our 'stuff' a lot more then the Obs bar here is.

First there is the ceremonial 'What hat is that you have on' inspection and trying on of the other's headwear. (a bit rudely, I liken this to the canine smelling of rear ends in greeting). It happens -every- time, no matter how many times you have met the person before.

Then there is the discussions of recent bargains etc....trust me, this takes hours..... we rarely in person discuss Amy Winehouse, or who we have a crush on, or costumed squirrels or any of those things.

I don't think anyone wants an online symposium, but I can go discuss modern celebrities with peers at work , or who the latest music artist is with other friends. I can -only- discuss vintage ( or retro, or classics) with you guys here....

Miss Neecerie said:

I don't think anyone wants an online symposium, but I can go discuss modern celebrities with peers at work , or who the latest music artist is with other friends. I can -only- discuss vintage ( or retro, or classics) with you guys here....

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That is a very valid point. I think this is key to this discussion, well said.

What did you all think was going to happen when a thread is started? Someone will say something and then X chimes in, B puts in his two cents and so on and so on. It's just the natural course of events. (I'm still trying to figure out what "fake melons" has to do with the Golden Era especially since Jaynes Mansfield and Jane Russell are not being compared to current starlets.lol

scotrace said:

Please take no offense if your stuff is closed! We will do this very sparingly and with utmost respect for our fellow members.

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I don't have a problem with removing seriously off-topic threads, but it seems that recently there is a problem with bartenders removing on-topic threads or at least enforcing the forum rules in a haphazard and unpredictable fashion.

For instance, my thread with photos of my WW2 German reenacting impression was removed as "offensive to other forum members" although other people's photos are allowed to remain which are no more or less offensive that I can figure out.

It certainly has dulled my interest in bothering to create more threads.

WOW, 5 pages in one day, this must be a record.

A question: how often are bartenders following threads in real time? You guys are simply marvelous. I haven't seen any heavy handed tactics & I've seen how some members can be quite obstreperous. (ooo, i love using these vintage words & i even spelled it right:eusa_clap )

A thought: How about a thread that describes the history of the lounge with links to some threads you think exemplify the excellence of the early days so we can see how to "take this place up a notch."

More thoughts to follow.

Geeez, and I thought I'd get to bed early tonight, lol!

First of all, Scott~ I think we should leave the Ladies and Men of the Lounge threads as is. At first I thought it would be a good idea to merge them. But on second thought, merging would mean the thread would move much quicker than if they were kept seperate. It would be much harder to keep up and I for one do not want to miss anything!

I am another who thought the OB was for OT conversations. After all, if we stuck to vintage talk in the OB what would be the use of it, why would we have all of the other sub categories?

As much as we all love and appreciate previous eras, we have to remember that we do not live in the olden days. I think we need a place to let our modern selves shine through. And the thing is, I don't want to go to another forum to discuss non vintage topics because I love the people here. People who have golden era values and manners. If I have a random question, sure~ I could go to Yahoo answers, or google it. But I value the opinions of those here on the lounge, so I'd rather ask you all, within reason of course! It's like Cheers, where everybody knows your name. I don't wanna go to another "bar" where everyone cusses and flames, etc. There's just a definite level of maturity here that I have not found elsewhere.

As others have said, if you don't wanna read fluff, stick to the sub categories.

I understand how it can be extremely hard to moderate, and I too thank and appreciate our bartenders. I'm sure you will all come to a fitting decision.
Nikki

A thought: How about a thread that describes the history of the lounge with links to some threads you think exemplify the excellence of the early days so we can see how to "take this place up a notch."

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Good idea Surely!
Nikki

Lady Day. Thank you for the explanation.

I agree completely with Nikki. I don't want to go anywhere else. I want to see photos of the lovely Swedish blonde girl and other people.

A few years back me and about 19 other people crowded into a small daycare room to start a church. As it grew I definitely watched growing pains. It now has about 3000 people and is nothing like it started out as.
It is impossible to understand what went on here in the beginning and how the FL was to newcomers.
With my example I do apologize to the beginning or original FL members. I am sure it has been difficult at best.
Hopefully some level of understanding can be achieved and implemented and I thank Scotrace for opening this topic up. Communication is always good.

A Couple of Points...

The changes we are speaking of are not about going backward to what the Fedora Lounge was in the past, but a rather a great step forward to strengthen this place for long-term growth and to enhance is as the indispensable resource it has always been on vintage topics.

Members are members; some have been here since day one, some have been here a long time, some a short time. It's all about bringing out what is best in all of us to make this a compelling and interesting resource.

Your bartenders are members too!

The degree to which moderation is being adjusted here is relatively slight; in essence, I'm not sure 95% would have noticed had we not started this thread. I think we would all agree, in looking around this place, that some threads and posts are all over the place. Bartenders make their best calls. I'll speak for myself in saying, sometimes I get it right and sometimes I don't.

I assure you that the essential character of this place in inalterable. It is made up of all of us.

I absolutely agree that a little cleaning is a good thing. Sometimes threads wander way into off-topic land, and that makes it harder to follow threads and search for topics in older threads. I would definately be behind the bartenders if they started to be a bit more strict with us all, trying to keep us on track.

BUT: My experience is that for that to work, any forum needs an outlet for all the stupid, funny, off-topic things that goes on in all our heads. I thought OB was that place, a place where almost nothing is too off-topic. (Except for politis. I still agree with the no politics-rule, to keep things on the right track.)

Having a place for all the nonsense should make it easier to keep a stricter policy in the other forums: When someone goes off topic, remove it to the OB, or tell the off topic-ers to do that themselves.

My two cents, right there!

One note re: favoritism, nepotism et al.

Absolutely! There are many people here with whom I have a long-term friendship, and often know from face-to-face meetings. After reading their posts and hearing them speak, emailing, probably talking on the phone, I have a far better feel for what they mean and how far they will go than someone who is not in that position. So do we allow some members more leeway than others? Of course. I think that's human nature.

KittyT expresses it far better than I, but I just wanted to make that clear.

If Ms. 3000 posts says something provocative or outside the norm, and I know from previous conversations or general knowledge where it is headed, it stays. If Mr. 10 posts starts writing in a way that reflects the other, less polite boards which several here have mentioned, into the trash can it goes. We consistently encourage new members to hang around, read a lot, get a feel for the place, then start posting.

Would you consider creating another forum area?

scotrace said:

In recent months, we've seen a huge influx of new members - a VERY good thing. With so many new folk arriving daily, it is easy, on first glance, to think of The Fedora Lounge as a sort of social networking, shoot the breeze forum with some vintage stuff thrown in here and there...

We invite your thoughts.

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I see your point and agree that many of the conversations drift away from the main focus of the site. Some of the things I have replied to and posted don't fit the main focus either.

But I do enjoy the perspective I see from people who frequent this site even on non-vintage related issues. It seems to be generally much more behaved and personable than some of the other sites where flaming is the norm.

I know it's asking a lot, but would the bartenders consider a forum area for non-vintage discussions so the members who only know each other from this web site may still have a place to congregate and not have to maintain relationships on sites which are much less friendly and often times very abusive?

You could call it "The Back Alley" or somthing like that. [huh]

Anthony

scotrace said:

One note re: favoritism, nepotism et al.

Absolutely! There are many people here with whom I have a long-term friendship, and often know from face-to-face meetings. After reading their posts and hearing them speak, emailing, probably talking on the phone, I have a far better feel for what they mean and how far they will go than someone who is not in that position. So do we allow some members more leeway than others? Of course. I think that's human nature.

KittyT expresses it far better than I, but I just wanted to make that clear.

If Ms. 3000 posts says something provocative or outside the norm, and I know from previous conversations or general knowledge where it is headed, it stays. If Mr. 10 posts starts writing in a way that reflects the other, less polite boards which several here have mentioned, into the trash can it goes. We consistently encourage new members to hang around, read a lot, get a feel for the place, then start posting.

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I understand that perfectly, having been accused of similar for years. lol

surely said:

A thought: How about a thread that describes the history of the lounge with links to some threads you think exemplify the excellence of the early days so we can see how to "take this place up a notch."

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Done. In OB.