Nick Charles
Practically Family
- Messages
- 989
- Location
- Sunny Phoenix
I recently bought a group of ties off ebay and want to know how to tell when they were made, is there a way of dating them by the way there are manufactured?
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Dating ties
- Thread starter Nick Charles
- Start date
ShanghaiJack
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 142
- Location
- U.S.A.
Ties
Well thats a skill to be learned. Several factors determine age.
Length and width certainly play a role, and material. Rayon was quite the fine material in the 30's-50's. Silk was rare, and for the Ultra-Elite. Rayon "Acetate" was a term used post World War II as a textile description. And Nylon was not a term nor a fabric used for neckties until the 60's as far as my research goes. Some necktie labels sometimes have the term "caravat" or "cravat" on it. This was a term used in the day describing "textile construction " style, and that's a good clue. Look for these trends too, an Erte or minimalist feel [including the length and width] may be from the 20's or early 30's. And a more art deco themed tie [including the length and width] is more likely from the 30's to early 40's. And of course the geometric shapes and themes that were the dead giveaways. And these "themes" progressed or evolved from the late 30's thru the mid 1950's. As we all know the late 50's- early 60's killed our beloved "wide ties"...Animal themes, pinups, floral patterns, etc can be found on vintage Golden Era neckties. Brocade, hand painted, printing methods, were varied as well, and evolved/changed from one decade to the other.
Basically it is a "learn as you go" process. And it's literally learned hands-on.
The Japanese have a series of "collectors" books of American Vintage neckties. My Japanese is nil, however if you live near a large city with a japanese book store, they could possibly order them for you. Good Luck!
Tails Up!
ShanghaiJack
Well thats a skill to be learned. Several factors determine age.
Length and width certainly play a role, and material. Rayon was quite the fine material in the 30's-50's. Silk was rare, and for the Ultra-Elite. Rayon "Acetate" was a term used post World War II as a textile description. And Nylon was not a term nor a fabric used for neckties until the 60's as far as my research goes. Some necktie labels sometimes have the term "caravat" or "cravat" on it. This was a term used in the day describing "textile construction " style, and that's a good clue. Look for these trends too, an Erte or minimalist feel [including the length and width] may be from the 20's or early 30's. And a more art deco themed tie [including the length and width] is more likely from the 30's to early 40's. And of course the geometric shapes and themes that were the dead giveaways. And these "themes" progressed or evolved from the late 30's thru the mid 1950's. As we all know the late 50's- early 60's killed our beloved "wide ties"...Animal themes, pinups, floral patterns, etc can be found on vintage Golden Era neckties. Brocade, hand painted, printing methods, were varied as well, and evolved/changed from one decade to the other.
Basically it is a "learn as you go" process. And it's literally learned hands-on.
The Japanese have a series of "collectors" books of American Vintage neckties. My Japanese is nil, however if you live near a large city with a japanese book store, they could possibly order them for you. Good Luck!
Tails Up!
ShanghaiJack
- Messages
- 14,376
- Location
- Small Town Ohio, USA
Dang. People were SHORT.
I just got five of the most beautiful ties I've ever seen from eBay. They're wide, with varying patterns, some very stylized animals, some very geometric, and one red with big cream polkadots. One of the ties is still in it's paperboard sleeve. They all are narrower toward the skinny end, then flair out at the end. There are no "keepers." Nor do they have a brand name (except for the one in the sleeve). They were sold as '40's vintage.
But here's the deal: I can't wear them. I tried one this morning, and found that no matter how I fussed with the knot and adjusted the length, it ended up hanging right bewteen my nipples. Not exactly the look I was going for. I am 6' 2". I can't wear any vintage stuff, it seems, because I'm just too big! Suits, shoes, hats... not even ties. I expected the ties to be short, but thought I could get them at least to my navel.
Maybe they'd work as really BEEG bowties. Otherwise, they'll have to go back to eBay.
I just got five of the most beautiful ties I've ever seen from eBay. They're wide, with varying patterns, some very stylized animals, some very geometric, and one red with big cream polkadots. One of the ties is still in it's paperboard sleeve. They all are narrower toward the skinny end, then flair out at the end. There are no "keepers." Nor do they have a brand name (except for the one in the sleeve). They were sold as '40's vintage.
But here's the deal: I can't wear them. I tried one this morning, and found that no matter how I fussed with the knot and adjusted the length, it ended up hanging right bewteen my nipples. Not exactly the look I was going for. I am 6' 2". I can't wear any vintage stuff, it seems, because I'm just too big! Suits, shoes, hats... not even ties. I expected the ties to be short, but thought I could get them at least to my navel.
Maybe they'd work as really BEEG bowties. Otherwise, they'll have to go back to eBay.
BellyTank
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 7,061
Jack-
I have a few additions- maybe corrections if I'm actually reaching the point.
The term Cravat was used to market American neck ties adding some European flavour and sophistication, I believe- you know, like the English Cravat- a FAT tie that you wear under an open necked shirt. And names like 'Wembley'...
http://www.tomsawyerwaistcoats.co.uk/subprod/how-to-tie-a-cravat-0001283.aspx
When you say 'Brocade' do you mean Brocade or Jacquard? I've heard people describing Jacquard ties as Brocade and assumed they meant Jacquard like this-
JACQUARD-
-it's what some people might call a 'shadow' or 'self pattern'.
Woven flat into the background but with a different lustre, like a tonic/reflective effect- same as background colour but maybe different texture- shine. In the above pic, the swirly designs in the gold and the red are the 'jacquard'.
...although there are Brocade ties, like this-
http://chinasprout.com/htm/shop.htm...at=men&subsubcat=nil&mode=enlarge&type=AAT001
BROCADE- a raised 'embroidered' looking pattern
Rayon was a man-made fabric derived from cellulose- wood pulp, a by-product. Acetate is cellulose acetate, 'a plastic' fibre.
Both economy fabrics but both winners-
And Rayon/Acetate is a blend of... you guessed it-
As Jack says, once you've looked at enough ties, you can tell by the size, pattern, fabric and brandnames.
This is a good little site- not the best though-
http://chinasprout.com/htm/shop.htm...at=men&subsubcat=nil&mode=enlarge&type=AAT001
Many on-line vintage stores have vast tie collections with excellent descriptions-
BT.
I have a few additions- maybe corrections if I'm actually reaching the point.
The term Cravat was used to market American neck ties adding some European flavour and sophistication, I believe- you know, like the English Cravat- a FAT tie that you wear under an open necked shirt. And names like 'Wembley'...
http://www.tomsawyerwaistcoats.co.uk/subprod/how-to-tie-a-cravat-0001283.aspx
When you say 'Brocade' do you mean Brocade or Jacquard? I've heard people describing Jacquard ties as Brocade and assumed they meant Jacquard like this-
JACQUARD-
-it's what some people might call a 'shadow' or 'self pattern'.
Woven flat into the background but with a different lustre, like a tonic/reflective effect- same as background colour but maybe different texture- shine. In the above pic, the swirly designs in the gold and the red are the 'jacquard'.
...although there are Brocade ties, like this-
http://chinasprout.com/htm/shop.htm...at=men&subsubcat=nil&mode=enlarge&type=AAT001
BROCADE- a raised 'embroidered' looking pattern
Rayon was a man-made fabric derived from cellulose- wood pulp, a by-product. Acetate is cellulose acetate, 'a plastic' fibre.
Both economy fabrics but both winners-
And Rayon/Acetate is a blend of... you guessed it-
As Jack says, once you've looked at enough ties, you can tell by the size, pattern, fabric and brandnames.
This is a good little site- not the best though-
http://chinasprout.com/htm/shop.htm...at=men&subsubcat=nil&mode=enlarge&type=AAT001
Many on-line vintage stores have vast tie collections with excellent descriptions-
BT.
ShanghaiJack
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 142
- Location
- U.S.A.
Brocade
All,
Many ties , in my collection from the 30's, were brocade. Then Jacquard styles emerged in the late 30's early 40's. Again so many changes over the big 3 decades. A few of my 30's ties are simply prints, and others elaborately hand painted. So many ties, such little time....
Tails Up!
SJ
All,
Many ties , in my collection from the 30's, were brocade. Then Jacquard styles emerged in the late 30's early 40's. Again so many changes over the big 3 decades. A few of my 30's ties are simply prints, and others elaborately hand painted. So many ties, such little time....
Tails Up!
SJ
