ELC German Flying Coat: Military nostalgia or civilian jacket?

[Deleted member 16736]

Hi, I am looking for a fall/winter leather jacket, and ELC's WWI German flying coat fits the bill. Other than the Luftwaffe label which I would ask they replace, is this jacket a civilian design or strictly a military repro? Did regular people wear this jacket or only the Red Baron and his buddies? Was it military issue? I love the jacket and I want to own it, but only if has a civilian pedigree. I do not wish to glorify the German air force in any world war! Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

Here's the coat:

http://www.eastmanleather.com/product_info.php?products_id=155

 

[thecardigankid]

The early jackets of WW1 flyers were probably issued but for the most part were very popular by both military flyers and civilians, it was the same on both sides of the conflict. The early flying jackets had a very stylish civilian look to them and this style stayed in fashion with flyers and barnstormers in the years after ww1. I say if you got this jacket unless someone knew indepth about flying jackets no one would think you were wearing a flying jacket let alone a Luftwaffe one.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

Thanks, Mike. By the way, the patches are trickling in...

 

[Edward]

I shouldn't imagine that anyone seeing you wearing such a jacket will think Luftwaffe, though if you're bothered by such things, I do find my black leather trenchcoat attracts a lot of "Gestapo" comments, though typically only from people in their forties and fifties (i.e. the folks who grew up with the Hollywood version of WW2, rather than the real thing). Younger people are more likely to reference The Matrix. Neither bothers me.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

I think it's more a question of whether I'm bothered by it. For my own edification, I was wondering if this was a strictly military style or more of a civilian/military hybrid like the ELC Luftwaffe jacket which was also a French motorcycle jacket. I'm in my early 40's, and yes, a black leather trenchcoat, rightly or wrongly, does conjure up images of Gestapo agents. Of course this jacket is from WWI. I don't know. It's a beautiful jacket. Maybe I should just leave it at that.

 

[Metatron]

My humble opinion is first that unless you are a supporter of the ideology, nothing you wear has any 'meaning' whatsoever. I find the banning of the swastika in Germany a bit silly and superstitious, of course I understand the thinking behind it, but a mere shape can't be 'jinxed' unless one believes in magic.

Secondly even though the politics of WW2 weren't exactly black and white, I can understand you not wanting anything to do with the Nazi regime however vague that may be. But in WW1? I can't see how Germany, or the German flyers bear more guilt than any other combatants. Am I to stop wearing anything British because of the colonies?

Anyway, maybe i've gone a bit off topic here, but I think that it's a nice coat, and in fact republican soldiers in Spain wore a similar style if it's of any importance to you.

 

[Metatron]

http://www.lacolumna.org.uk/buying_guide_leather.htm

Check it out.

By the way, I wish to share a tip with you. Have a look for 'Italian police leather motorcycle jackets' it's a a style used in the 60s if i'm not mistaken, similar design, and available for peanuts in used condition.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

I appreciate your input. I would only add that the U.S. fought Germany in WWI. As an American, yes, that affects my thinking. But I am glad for your contributions. Thank you.

I checked out the Spanish coats, and I prefer their simple, uncomplicated look. I also prefer the front pocket placement. The pockets on the ELC flying coat are on the sides, presumably for dumping stuff and not keeping your hands warm.

 

[MisterCairo]

To my eyes the Eastman jacket just looks like a great jacket. Nothing says "German" to me, and I can't see any "Luftwaffe" label in the pictures, certainly nothing on the exterior of the jacket.

I fail to see how you'd be glorifying the German air forces of any era with that jacket, and if you get another one that looks similar, but isn't "German flying jacket based", wouldn't the end result be the same in any event?

 

[Deleted member 16736]

To my eyes the Eastman jacket just looks like a great jacket. Nothing says "German" to me, and I can't see any "Luftwaffe" label in the pictures, certainly nothing on the exterior of the jacket.

I fail to see how you'd be glorifying the German air forces of any era with that jacket, and if you get another one that looks similar, but isn't "German flying jacket based", wouldn't the end result be the same in any event?

If it's a copy of an official WWI German uniform, I believe I'd be glorifying the German air force in WWI. Other people might have a different feeling.

 

[Rudie]

I'm sure Aero would be more than willing to change their Barnstormer design so it looks like the Spanish Barnstormers. Basically they'd just have to omit the chest pockets and change the cargo pockets to handwarmer pockets.

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

I understand your consideration about "glorifying WWI Luftwaffe" even if I don't personally feel the same way
(I won't wear anything with a "nazi" look, but have nothing against WWI adversaries, or Germany as a whole..)

anyway, besides seconding those who assure you that the coat itself doesn't look particularly "Luftwaffish" (in fact, I tend to think these coats were probably privately purchased on the civilian market)
I'd ask you to consider the italian coat someone else already indicated:
very similar to the Luftwaffe one, post-war (the second) and used, by that time, by American allies
and it comes for a song, if you find one...

ciao!

 

[Deleted member 16736]

I'm sure Aero would be more than willing to change their Barnstormer design so it looks like the Spanish Barnstormers. Basically they'd just have to omit the chest pockets and change the cargo pockets to handwarmer pockets.

That's an outstanding suggestion. Also, the Spanish barnstormers had adjustable latch cuffs.

 

[MisterCairo]

If it's a copy of an official WWI German uniform, I believe I'd be glorifying the German air force in WWI. Other people might have a different feeling.

And if it's just a civilian jacket that happened to adopted en masse by the German air force, then it's okay?

I'm sorry, not trying to start an argument, it just seems odd to me you'd even consider this jacket given that its primary feature is its use by German pilots in the Great War and your sensitivity to an even perceived glorification of the Luftwaffe. Not a criticism, just an observation. To me, it's a nice looking jacket, and if the styling is based on the Germans (the Eastman product is blatantly advertised as such), oh well.

 

[ButteMT61]

IMHO, people need to get over this PC crap. Really. Let's just hide or burn everything in the past that we think is offensive to someone - anyone.
I am not trying to fight or argue either, but some of the PC garbage in society today drives me nuts.
BTW, I'm overly sensitive to this being German. When I was younger and dated, I actually had Jewish girl friends who would not let me meet their parents! I can't imagine what some families have gone through, but that would be like telling my son or daughters that they could not date a Muslim because of 9/11.
It's just overboard and equally insensitive.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

It's my body and I'm particular about what I wear, as we all are or we wouldn't be here. Yes, I believe it would make a difference if this were a civilian jacket that happened to be worn by German WWI flying aces as opposed to a Luftwaffe issue garment that was later adopted by civilians. It's me, it's my wardrobe, it's my decision. I don't think I'm being PC about it. It's just the way I feel. I don't do it for society; I do it for me.

It's a beautiful jacket and it's not an issue. It's also identical except for the buttons to the Brookland Motoring Coat in brown, which ELC sold at one time. Thank you all for helping me think this through.

 

[ButteMT61]

It's my body and I'm particular about what I wear, as we all are or we wouldn't be here. Yes, I believe it would make a difference if this were a civilian jacket that happened to be worn by German WWI flying aces as opposed to a Luftwaffe issue garment that was later adopted by civilians. It's me, it's my wardrobe, it's my decision. I don't think I'm being PC about it. It's just the way I feel. I don't do it for society; I do it for me.

It's a beautiful jacket and it's not an issue. It's also identical except for the buttons to the Brookland Motoring Coat in brown, which ELC sold at one time. Thank you all for helping me think this through.

Methinks you're misunderstanding me, or quoted the wrong guy. I think you should wear it. If my post implies otherwise, that's not what my intent was...

 

[Deleted member 16736]

No worries.

Speaking of vintage Barnstormer coats, check out this French example on eBay right now. Wish it were my size.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Horsehide-barns..._s_Clothing&hash=item19c7a896c6#ht_500wt_1100

 

[ButteMT61]

No worries.

Speaking of vintage Barnstormer coats, check out this French example on eBay right now. Wish it were my size.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Horsehide-barns..._s_Clothing&hash=item19c7a896c6#ht_500wt_1100

I saw that. Very nice. Almost never anything in my size! (52L)
However, contemplation cost me a huge score last month - an Aero "Anniversary" A2 in size 52 for $375 - NEW! I waited a few minutes to email the seller a question, and BOOM, it was gone.