Fake Melons

[LizzieMaine]

I want to reiterate Scotrace's comment earlier in the thread -- the purpose of this discussion is not wink-wink-nudge-nudge stuff in any form. We Bartenders reserve the option of making the thread women only if this isn't respected. So please behave, fellas.

 

[Fleur De Guerre]

I don't want to keep posting as I'm afraid that I look like I'm trying to make this thread about me... I'm not!

But while not trying to "show and tell" per se, I just got a photo back from a recent shoot I did, so I'm going to post it on the Ladies of the Lounge thread. Hopefully you'll see that 'fake melons' don't have to mean the exaggerated ones you see on overdone celebs (or wannabes!).

 

[LadyDeWinter]

Fleur, I would love to see your photos.

 

[Johnnysan]

Fleur, you are lovely and classically proportioned. (But - by way of a compliment and not a criticism - I dare say that I found you just as lovely "before" as "after.")

It seems to me that regardless of what others may think, one's own perception of their physical attractiveness is often based on how comfortable he/she feels in his/her own body. If changing something about your physical appearance results in a more positive self image, then it is beneficial. The only body that I'm allowed to feel comfortable or uncomfortable about is the one I've got. If something works for someone else...more power to them!

People with a positive self image are confident and comfortable with themselves. Many of us (myself included) find that the most attractive trait of all.

 

[BigLittleTim]

Always good to have a C.S. Lewis quote handy...

From "The Screwtape Letters" (1942) of C.S. Lewis:

It is the business of these great masters to produce in every age a general misdirection of what may be called sexual "taste". This they do by working through the small circle of popular artists, dressmakers, actresses and advertisers who determine the fashionable type... As regards the male taste we have varied a good deal. At one time we have directed it to the statuesque and aristocratic type of beauty, mixing men's vanity with their desires and encouraging the race to breed chiefly from the most arrogant and prodigal women. At another, we have selected an exaggeratedly feminine type, faint and languishing, so that folly and cowardice, and all the general falseness and littleness of mind which go with them, shall be at a premium. At present we are on the opposite tack. The age of jazz has succeeded the age of the waltz, and we now teach men to like women whose bodies are scarcely distinguishable from those of boys. Since this is a kind of beauty even more transitory than most, we thus aggravate the female's chronic horror of growing old (with many excellent results) and render her less willing and less able to bear children. And that is not all. We have engineered a great increase in the licence which society allows to the representation of the apparent nude (not the real nude) in art, and its exhibition on the stage or the bathing beach. It is all a fake, of course; the figures in the popular art are falsely drawn; the real women in bathing suits or tights are actually pinched in and propped up to make them appear firmer and more slender and more boyish than nature allows a full-grown woman to be. Yet at the same time, the modern world is taught to believe that it is being "frank" and "healthy" and getting back to nature. As a result we are more and more directing the desires of men to something which does not exist—making the rôle of the eye in sexuality more and more important and at the same time making its demands more and more impossible. What follows you can easily forecast!

-BigLittleTim

 

[Spitfire]

I want to reiterate Scotrace's comment earlier in the thread -- the purpose of this discussion is not wink-wink-nudge-nudge stuff in any form. We Bartenders reserve the option of making the thread women only if this isn't respected. So please behave, fellas.

Dear LizzieMaine, First of all it was not a man who came up with the headline of this thead.
Secondly, I believe that most girls want to hear what the men thinks about this subject. My guesse is that at least 70% of the reason for breatschanges are "because" of men and their opinions. (However nudge-nudge they may be.)
Third: Of course we have to keep it on a civilized level.
But I have allready said what I think on this subject earlier on, so I will just leave you to it, and take another look at the beautifull Fleur somewhere else.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Dear LizzieMaine, First of all it was not a man who came up with the headline of this thead.
Secondly, I believe that most girls want to hear what the men thinks about this subject. My guesse is that at least 70% of the reason for breatschanges are "because" of men and their opinions. (However nudge-nudge they may be.)
Third: Of course we have to keep it on a civilized level.
But I have allready said what I think on this subject earlier on, so I will just leave you to it, and take another look at the beautifull Fleur somewhere else.

Yes, I, a female, started this thread seeking the opinions of both men and women regarding the difference between Golden Era sizing and today, specifically, the surgically altered aspect of it. I'm sorry if the title was a poor choice. Now, when I say I want to know men's opinions, I, nor most gals I would think, don't mean "hey, which celeb has the best set, fake or not, and post pics." I was aiming for a sociological discussion which includes opinions on the visuals, sure, but more so on the changes in what constitutes beauty, and what women are willing to do, or not do, to conform to that.

Of course, this is not my bar to tend, so I understand if it needs to be closed or edited. I do believe if this kind of discussion can be had in a respectful manner, it is here at the FL.

 

[Lady Day]

Dear LizzieMaine, First of all it was not a man who came up with the headline of this thead.

True, but it has been the other sex who have made he most disruption of a delicate but conversational topic, you not being one of them.

Secondly, I believe that most girls want to hear what the men thinks about this subject. My guesse is that at least 70% of the reason for breatschanges are "because" of men and their opinions. (However nudge-nudge they may be.)

Ture but again, comments, criticism, tact and low blows are all being dealt not by the women in this thread. For the sake of time we will cut of its source all together.

Third: Of course we have to keep it on a civilized level.
But I have allready said what I think on this subject earlier on, so I will just leave you to it...

Thank you Spitfire, that is very gentlemanly of you

Not to make an example of you, my friend, but you pointed out things Im sure most are concerned with. The Beauty forum is in the women's relm, and as such we have the athority to make any thread at any time women's only. So please all, lets discuss this topic like the adults we are and can be.
*off my soap box,

LD

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Yes, I, a female, started this thread seeking the opinions of both men and women regarding the difference between Golden Era sizing and today, specifically, the surgically altered aspect of it. I'm sorry if the title was a poor choice. Now, when I say I want to know men's opinions, I, nor most gals I would think, don't mean "hey, which celeb has the best set, fake or not, and post pics." I was aiming for a sociological discussion which includes opinions on the visuals, sure, but more so on the changes in what constitutes beauty, and what women are willing to do, or not do, to conform to that.

Of course, this is not my bar to tend, so I understand if it needs to be closed or edited. I do beieve if this kind of discussion can be had in a respectful manner, it is here at the FL.

I think so far that most men would agree that real men like real women. The so-called "ideal" of today is tawdry.

 

[Vintage Betty]

This might be construed fftopic: but I think this is the perfect thread to mention a variety of important things:

1. Ladies, remember to check your breasts MONTHLY for lumps. Cancer does not dicriminate on breast size.
2. If you have implants, please check with your physician on the best way to check for cancer
3. Mammograms are also important. Remember to get them regularly.

And...

I used to work in lingerie, many years ago. One of the bra reps stated that most ladies with large breasts who had back pain was due to the fact that they had the wrong bra size! I took her advice literally, and measured all ladies who let me. Much to my surprise, 80% of the women who I measured and almost 100% of the larger ladies wore the wrong size. In most cases, the larger ladies had bras that were 2 to 4 INCHES too small! One lady said "I thought bras were supposed to hurt".

Ladies, please get yourself measured next time you are in the right department by someone professional. "Correct foundation garments" are NOT supposed to hurt!

Vintage Betty

 

[Edward]

People with a positive self image are confident and comfortable with themselves. Many of us (myself included) find that the most attractive trait of all.

Bravo.

when someone asked which one he was talking about he called me "the one with the big boobs."

Gah, I'm ashamed to be male sometimes. Not to sound all po-faced or anything, but.... A friend of mine is, well, she's very generously proportioned in the chest. Stunning lady in general, though folks - well, men, mainly - tend to notice her chest first as she is just naturally very busty. for a long time she actually dyed her hair because with being blonde and big-busted a shocking number of men just assumed they could just treat her as a walking "rack" and try to touch them and whatnot.

I guess one thing that bothers me about breast augmentation is my presumed assumption that the woman is doing so, in a male dominated society, in order to virtually get anything she wants.

But what bothers me the most, :eusa_doh: is the insistence on the part of most men, to prove her correct.

No doubt there are some women who have it done for that reasoning, though from what I've seen and heard over the years, a lot more have it done either for their own reasons, as Fleur has discussed, or because they are made to feel inadequate that they don't live up to an artificial beauty ideal. It always seems to me that we men get the easy ride when it comes to these things, as (outside of the gay community, at least) there aren't nearly so many expectations as to what we should look like or what shape our bodies should be.

I think its the art of making them look realistic/natural as just opposed to larger is what is so distracting to most people. It looks comical, simply to say "I have fake boobs. They are big." instead of "I have enhanced an attribute that suits my frame, even tho exaggerated."

I've never cared for pornography myself, both on grounds of personal morality and the fact that, well, it's inevitably tawdry and just doesn't appeal. As my professional specialism is regulation of media content, however, I have a bit of an awareness as to what's available out there online. And you know what? If that is in any way representative of what men really find attractive, then for every lady there truly are a whole bunch of men that will find her the very pinnacle of physical beauty. (Whether a lady wants the sort of gentleman who habitually views pornography is another matter entirely, of course, and one for personal choice alone. ).

I share you incomprehension at the "fake" look which is popular, whether it's bosoms, or fake tan or whatever. I understand the safety aspect of fake tan being attractive to those whose aesthetic preferences appreciate the sun tan look, but why the artificial colour that in no conceivable way looks like anything other than fake tan? [huh] Works for somebody, obviously. Ms Katie Price / Jordan, pictured earleir in the thread, had an extremely fake look both in terms of her proportions and the general 'stuck-on' look of her implants and the other cosmetic work she has had done. It seems that this is a business decision of sorts - she has made a lot of money out of it all for herself, and clearly there are many men who do aspire to that. To me, she looks like a characteur of one of Hugh Hefner's "girlfriends." She herself has said in interviews though that she loves the "fake" look - and "fake" is the word she uses herself - in essence, she has said, she wants to look like a Barbie doll. Well, if that's what she wants and she is doing it for herself, fair enough. It seems a shame to me, though, as she really was naturally a very pretty lady before she had all the work done.

It seems to me that the "fake look" has become something that many find desirable.... maybe this is the next step on from all the other things which are bracketed as "sexy" by mainstream society but only became that way by conicidence. for example, black underwear. Growing up, the impression I was always given by society at learge was that black ladies' underwear was "sexy." While writing my postgraduate dissertation, I discovered that the reason for this notion is rooted in the early days of "glamour" photography. Black underwear simply showed up / looked better on the prdominantly caucasian models in black and white photographs, thus it was what they wore more often, thus it cane to be considered "a sex thing." Similarly stockings and suspenders, which just happened to be what female underwear was as normal back in the day. It seems to me that the next step in this is that the Barbie doll look with fake boobs, fake lips, fake hair and fake tan as favoured by many mainstream glamour models and preferred by Hugh Hefner and the likes is becoming considered what is "sexy" by many, however artificial it may be. The difference here, of course, is that it's a whole lot more of a commitment to the look than buying some new underwear. In an ideal world, there would be someone for everyone no matter how they were naturally, and cosmetic surgery would be there as an option for reconstruction or for those who truly wanted it for themselves rather than feeling social pressure to look a certain way. As the world truly is, it seems to me, very many people find themselves walking between pressure to fit in with the prevailing beauty image or the fear of being principled and alone. I don't think I'd blame anyone for jumping one way or the other - it's the society that creates these uniform beauty ideals and doesn't respect diversity that I hold to account.

Please excuse the rambling, I actually have rather strong feelings on this. I will now bow out of the conversation, as I feel I've said rather enough already.

 

[Josephine]

Ladies, please get yourself measured next time you are in the right department by someone professional.

I was measured by a professional at a lingerie store, and was sold two bras that did not fit because that was the biggest size they had. I figured they just wanted to sell me something. I found a now defunct site called Plus Size Bras and with their measuring system I was able to find bras that fit. THAT did a world of good to my self esteem! Though I have to go to English makers to find my size, 32/34G. Anyway, I saved the way they say to measure and put it up on my server in case those of you who can't find a bra that fits would like to see if it works for you.

 

[cemetarian]

27 years ago I had a mastectomy and reconstruction surgery............I was 32 at the time. It seemed the only rational choice...........at 32 in 1980, I really didn't want to be boob-less......the end result is that at 59 I still have the boobs of a 32 year old..................now if that ain't weird, I don't know what is, and that is what I counsel my younger friends who have either had augmentation or or thinking about it.............do you wnat your boobs to stand at attention (un-naturally) when every thing else is falling to the floor?

Now you say well why don't you do something about it............NAH! I'm kinda used to them by now....LOL....

 

[Vintage Betty]

I was measured by a professional at a lingerie store, and was sold two bras that did not fit because that was the biggest size they had. I figured they just wanted to sell me something. I found a now defunct site called Plus Size Bras and with their measuring system I was able to find bras that fit. THAT did a world of good to my self esteem! Though I have to go to English makers to find my size, 32/34G. Anyway, I saved the way they say to measure and put it up on my server in case those of you who can't find a bra that fits would like to see if it works for you.

Josephine-

I'm so sorry that you had a bad experience with measuring. That's so horrible when you are sold something wrong to just make a sale. :rage:

On the good side, how nice of you to save good instructions and share with us! I'm going over to take a look.

Thanks for the education.

Vintage Betty

 

[Josephine]

Josephine-... On the good side, how nice of you to save good instructions and share with us! I'm going over to take a look.

Thanks for the education.

You're quite welcome. The link at the bottom doesn't work (I just found out), it was to a chart with the equivalent sizes between makers. I have it as an Excel file though, I'll have to put it up. As we know, in the US they use DD, DDD, DDDD, etc, while in England and other parts of Europe they might use DD but go straight to E, F, G, etc. And even between national makers the sizes can differ, one US's brand's DD will be another's DDD.

Ahem.

Anyway, I never thought of Cemetarian's point, your bosom being perky and the rest of you being 40 years ahead age wise. What a time warp!

ps I hope I didn't come across as putting all getting measured professionally down. Just be sure to stand up for yourself, and move around in the bra while you're there. Standing still, anything will fit!

 

[Vintage Betty]

You're quite welcome. The link at the bottom doesn't work (I just found out), it was to a chart with the equivalent sizes between makers. I have it as an Excel file though, I'll have to put it up. As we know, in the US they use DD, DDD, DDDD, etc, while in England and other parts of Europe they might use DD but go straight to E, F, G, etc. And even between national makers the sizes can differ, one US's brand's DD will be another's DDD.

<snipped>

Depending on where you shop, some stores have both American and European measurements, sometimes on the same package. I believe Macy's Department Stores still sell some brands with various sizing listed.

VB

 

[Paisley]

27 years ago I had a mastectomy and reconstruction surgery............I was 32 at the time. It seemed the only rational choice...........at 32 in 1980, I really didn't want to be boob-less......the end result is that at 59 I still have the boobs of a 32 year old..................now if that ain't weird, I don't know what is, and that is what I counsel my younger friends who have either had augmentation or or thinking about it.............do you wnat your boobs to stand at attention (un-naturally) when every thing else is falling to the floor?

Now you say well why don't you do something about it............NAH! I'm kinda used to them by now....LOL....

Have you thought of weight training? It'll help lift and firm everything, and it's good for your bones and your strength as well. I've been lifting weights for years--PM me if you're interested.

 

[cemetarian]

Yes I have been in weight training for years as well as holding a Brown Belt in Tae Kwan Do..............but ya know what............Gravity Still Wins............LOL.........especially when arthritis, osteoporisis and skin cancer's hit......most girls at 30 don't think 30 years ahead...........it's not a major issue.....I just threw it out as food for thought...........don't anyone make a major decision based on my experience.....just give it careful thought before making any decisions (so said the wise old crone!)

Just for fun...........here's a slide show of us through the years...........I ain't doin' too bad for an old lady, but I sure ain't 30 anymore either........

http://cemetarian.com/index.php?pr=About_Us

 

[Big Man]

... most girls at 30 don't think 30 years ahead ...

As the old saying goes, "youth is wasted on the young." I would add to your comment that most men at 30 don't think 30 years ahead, too.

By the way, I loved your slide show.

 

[GoldLeaf]

My experience growing up was much like Fleur's. I am 6' tall, and I was a 34-36 A and weighed between 130 and 150, so pretty thin. Clothes fit terribly. And I do mean terribly. There would be these hollow, crumpled pockets of fabric in blouses and dresses. Shirts often looked empty and misshapen on me.

People made comments, and I felt so terribly out of proportion. Of all the body frames to be able to hand a little something, a tall girl is it. Finally, at about 22, I grew to a small B. The past few years I have gained some weight, and have gone to a full B. Clothes actually started to fit and didn't look like a little girl playing dress up in her mommy's clothes. However, on myself, I still think they look unnaturally small.

Sometimes I think if I had the money to get them done well, I would go up to a C. But, at least I am not an A anymore. And mine have absolutely no sag to them at 30 - that may change after the baby, for sure. But I feel like I have aged well, so that is a bonus for being a bit smaller, I guess

And for self esteem, I like myself, quite a bit, and am happy with who I am and my appearance. I walk tall and proud. But some days, when a garment hangs like an empty potato sack in the bust area, I still suffer from some doubt