Fedora---The Gangster Hat?!

[Wild Root]

To annoy you gentlemen even more LOL
here is a photo of Bing Crosby with Fred Astaire in the 40's. I believe that Hollywood actors dressed fancier then the mob bosses. That's just what I have noticed.

Cheers

 

[Wild Root]

Imahomer:

This particular gentleman was a professional baseball player of the day

Really? That's a shocker! See, I don't know that much about sports of any time period so, that makes since. Those boys did rather well in those hard times. Say, what is the chaps name? Would we know him?

I strongly believe that the term "Flashy" back then meant sharp or snappy. You didn't have to ware a bright color to be considered flashy. It meant that you knew how to dress and that you could afford to do so. All my original clothes of the time are rather conservative in color. However they do have more color then most modern suits today. I mean, look at navy blue today and what navy was back then. It had blue in it!

I would like to know the man?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s name it the photo and what car he?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s standing by. I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t believe it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a Packard. Packard?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s had a grill that you could identify a mile away. Could it be a Buick?

Inquiring minds want to know

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by Imahomer

Were Gangsters that flashy, or is that what people generally think after watching a Hollywood movie? This particular gentleman was a professional baseball player of the day and one of probably the top 10 or so in the game at that time. As a side note, everything I've ever read on him states that he was a flashy dresser.

I am basing my flashy dresser comment about gangsters on this article posted in an earlier thread:
http://www.hathistory.org/gangster/index.html

Particularly this part:
Their suits featured wider stripes, bolder glen plaids, more colorful ties, pronounced shoulders, narrower waists, and wider trouser bottoms. They topped their extreme look with fedora hats or gangster fedoras, in a wide variety of colors: almond green, dove, lilac, petrol blue, brown and dark gray. High fashion New York designers were mortified by demands to imitate the gangster style, but obliged by creating the Broadway suit, topped with a felt fedora.

This would support Hollywood following the gangster's dress and not the other way around. The Broadway suit was actually a toned-down version of the real gangster suit.
Wild Root, I wish that photo were in color because I think it would reveal a bit more than the drab color that we see with our eyes now. Capone may not have been wearing a pin stripe but the guy next to him was. The overcoats are also covering a good part of the suits from our view. Without the overcoats we would probably be able to see those "pronounced shoulders" and "narrow waists" better. We also cannot appreciate their ties.
The suit in color beside the 1930 photo is actually more sedate when you consider the color, tie and cut of the suit. Remember, gangsters would not dare wear a suit "off the rack." They had them made to order from materials that were not standard and in hues that certainly were not "business suits." LOL

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

I knew the name of the man to the left of Capone in that picture but I just remembered it now. That was Johnny Torrio. He was Capone's trusted advisor and mentor. Perhaps this picture was before Torrio's gangster style rubbed off on Capone. LOL

I think this photo may shed some light on the gangster suit. We have here two wonderful represenatatives of humanity Louis Clementi (left), a Capone gunman who is credited with killing over one hundred men and friend Philip Mangano.
Notice the wide stripe pattern on Clementi's suit, the flashy colored hat and the wide shoulders on that double-breasted suit. Too bad this is not a full length color picture but it gives you an idea of the gangster suit. It makes you also want to tell Clementi to take his hands out of his pockets so we can better see the cut of the suit but I do not want to see what he has in those pockets!


Regards to all,

J

 

[Wild Root]

The suit on the left is what is known to be a cheep costume compared to a real suit. I used that as an example of what Hollywood and Halloween has made gangsters look. Would you say that Capone has a narrow waist? Ha ha ha, that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s not a Gat, that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a Gut!

LOL LOL LOL

Well, yes their style was a little more pronounced then what the average Joe would have worn. I did see a suit in a vintage store one time that was a purple plaid houndstooth that was dated 1936. It could have been owned by a gangster, musician or a pimp. I got that photo of Capone off of the Getty site. It had a caption that I will include of what the photo is about.

Italian-American gangster Al Capone (1899 - 1947) with US Marshal Laubenheimer.

So, the two men were Law men.

I know how big Hollywood was in those days and I feel that Hollywood played a roll in what style was. But, yes gangsters did have there own sense of fashion. They totally did have custom made suits and hats. That?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a given!

Here are some other tasty treats for your eyes of mobsters for you consideration.

 

[Wild Root]

The suits in your photo are swell! But, I believe them to be top coats and not their suits. They have the shape of an over coat. That wide stripe pattern is known as herringbone. I have a few item with that pattern in it. I love that pattern.

Here is another good photo of Capone in a white or light colored suit.

Enjoy!

 

[jamespowers]

Man, I wish that last photo was in color! A white double breasted suit with a vest! I can just imagine the tie being red and the shoes? LOL Definitely a period example of a gangster suit. :cool2:

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by Wild Root
The suit on the left is what is known to be a cheep costume compared to a real suit. I used that as an example of what Hollywood and Halloween has made gangsters look. Would you say that Capone has a narrow waist? Ha ha ha, that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s not a Gat, that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a Gut!

LOL LOL LOL



Well, yes their style was a little more pronounced then what the average Joe would have worn. I did see a suit in a vintage store one time that was a purple plaid houndstooth that was dated 1936. It could have been owned by a gangster, musician or a pimp. I got that photo of Capone off of the Getty site. It had a caption that I will include of what the photo is about.

Yeah, Capone might be a bad example for a narrow waist. LOL His suits did have wider shoulders to sort of offset the gut err.. I mean waist. LOL

Italian-American gangster Al Capone (1899 - 1947) with US Marshal Laubenheimer.

So, the two men were Law men.

Interesting that the US Marshall looks like a picture I have of Torrio. Check it out. I attached it.

I know how big Hollywood was in those days and I feel that Hollywood played a roll in what style was. But, yes gangsters did have there own sense of fashion. They totally did have custom made suits and hats. That?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a given!

Here are some other tasty treats for your eyes of mobsters for you consideration.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Wild Root]

Well, it's clear that the tie is a solid dark gray or blackLOL LOL LOL

No, I would have guessed it to be maybe a dark red, green or blue. Now, we can't rule out black though.

Shoes: I would have to say white bucks! Or, two tones! Black & white, or brown & white.

Never the less, it's a swell outfit!

Cheers!

Say, are you up to a challenge? See if you can find any color photos of gangsters from the late 30's to early 40's. I'll be looking my self as well

 

[Imahomer]

Re: Imahomer:

Originally posted by Wild Root
This particular gentleman was a professional baseball player of the day

Really? That's a shocker! See, I don't know that much about sports of any time period so, that makes since. Those boys did rather well in those hard times. Say, what is the chaps name? Would we know him?

I strongly believe that the term "Flashy" back then meant sharp or snappy. You didn't have to ware a bright color to be considered flashy. It meant that you knew how to dress and that you could afford to do so. All my original clothes of the time are rather conservative in color. However they do have more color then most modern suits today. I mean, look at navy blue today and what navy was back then. It had blue in it!

I would like to know the man?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s name it the photo and what car he?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s standing by. I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t believe it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a Packard. Packard?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s had a grill that you could identify a mile away. Could it be a Buick?

Inquiring minds want to know

The photo was taken 2/10/30 and has Philadelphia Phillie and National League MVP Francis "Lefty" O'Doul standing in front of Tony Lazerri's new "high priced automobile". However I don't know what type of automobile it is.

 

[jamespowers]

Hey, those two suits in that illustration look very much like the gangster suits I described. They are a little too sedate though. LOL
I will check it out and see if there may be some color photos available. Color didn't really become that common until after 1945. it might be tough to find.

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

I think I am going to have to bow out of this argument because I have been told that the source I was quoting if "full of cr**." This is coming from a very respected individual who knows a little bit about vintage clothing so perhaps I was extrapolating a little too much from the article.
It seems mobsters/gangsters would probably want to fit in and Al Capone thought of himself more a a businessman than anything else. So perhaps I was wrong but I am more than willing to admit it. Wouldn't be the first time.
Those gangsters did have very nice tailors though. Probably better than most business men.
Also, upon closer inspection of the car with Lefty there, it looks more and more like a Duesenberg. I might be wrong there too though. LOL

Regards to all,

J

 

[Bogie1943]

I don't mind the gangster line, what I really hate is when people use the term "pimp" or pimpin", I hate that!

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by Bogie1943
I don't mind the gangster line, what I really hate is when people use the term "pimp" or pimpin", I hate that!

Yeah, I am not all that enamored of that term either. Especially when you consider we do not wear hats that pimps would wear. I have never owned a hat with a peacock feather in it. LOL They have a more eclectic or should I say esoteric taste?

Regards to all,

J

 

[Wild Root]

Yeah, that one is on the top of the list. The list goes like this: Pimp, Zoot Suit Riot, Gangster, Dick Tracy, God Father, Powder, Freddy Kruger (from Friday the 13th )
Inspector Gadget and last but not least, Swing Kid.

Those are all the uneducated names I have heard since I have started to ware a fedora.

Cheers.

 

[Bogie1943]

It just amazes me how people have no idea how people used to dress, people who are often their parents and grandparents. It is just sad how styles have changed from really good, to just plain boring.

 

[Wild Root]

Yep! I know what you mean. Lets keep dressing and hope that it will catch on!

Cheers.

 

[Bogie1943]

Here!Here! Unfortunately I fear it just wishful thinking.

 

[Wild Root]

FlASH?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ THIS JUST IN!

After much searching on the net this evening I found a car that I believe would be close to the model in the earlier photo of a famous ball player with his ?¢‚Ǩ?ìHigh Priced Auto?¢‚Ǩ?.

The car is with out a doubt a Cadillac! A 1930 Cadillac 4 door Cabriolet. I found a photo of a two door 1930 Cadillac 353 Cabriolet convertible and the front of the car looks identical! Make that a four door and you have the same car!

We forgot all about the Cadillac being one of America?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s favorite symbols of status!
Whew, now I can sleep tonight!

Well, here?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a photo of the car that I clime to be in the same family. You fellows look over the head lights, the little bar between the lights and the little emblem on it, the grill, cowling, fenders, bumper, and you will see that it shares a lot of things in common.

Good night all!

 

[Wild Root]

Compare!

Even look at the running boards! They match!

Now I have been looking closer to the cowling. It appears that the 4 door has a longer snout. And that makes me believe that it was a V-12. The one I pictured may well be just a V-8. I could be wrong. It may be that the 4 door could be a V-16! And the convertible a V-12. Tell me what you all think!

Good night I'll be chatting tomar...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz