Five Star Leather Jackets

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead, Sep 23, 2020.

  1. Bahabp100

    Bahabp100 Practically Family

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    AFA21BD5-B630-48B1-8F5C-0E7191DFCA75.jpeg Would this snap work for reversible? Anyone know the “name” of this style snap from the Schott 141 cafe racer ?
     
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  2. Bahabp100

    Bahabp100 Practically Family

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    14432579-C3DA-4C81-8A25-6A7BAAB85133.jpeg @Bahabp100 Just to check the wording on the leather. Do you mean the fur side or the smooth leather side when you say black shearling? Also I am not sure if Shawn has black fur, I am not sure. And his grey mouton is more like grey brown.



    View attachment 359208 [/QUOTE]

    Yes greyish brown mouton on one side and black shearling wool on the other . What type of snap do I need to make this happen ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
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  3. Canuck Panda

    Canuck Panda Practically Family

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    666
    Yes greyish brown mouton on one side and black shearling wool on the other . What type of snap do I need to make this happen ?[/QUOTE]
    I think the easiest way is to just order two separate fur collars. I haven’t seen a reversible mouton collar before I would imagine it would be just too thick overall.
     
  4. Kevin the Devon

    Kevin the Devon New in Town

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    13
    When ordering from 5 Star.
    Do you order say 27" sleeves or 24.5" leather and 2.5" cuff? The picture I saw cuffs were 3" while a jacket I own cuff is just 2.5"

    If actual "hem" line measurement was 44" what jacket measurement would you order?
     
  5. MrProper

    MrProper One Too Many

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    The more details you can provide, the better. In this case, I would specify the 27" length and explicitly the 24.5" sleeves and 2.5" cuff. Additionally, draw in the measurements on the picture so there is no misunderstanding.
    For a 17.7" hem I order 19.3"
     
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  6. Kevin the Devon

    Kevin the Devon New in Town

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    Thanks Mr Proper. The die is rolled and order placed.
     
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  7. navetsea

    navetsea I'll Lock Up

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    you don't really need special snap to make back to back set, just get small eyelet that fit into the center hole of the snap so you don't need the cap, then you can combine male to female, male to male, female to female back to back just punch eyelet through both. chose eyelet that doesn't come with ring for the other side, pick one that just flare open to make it flatter and not hindering the snap's function, depending on your leather thickness you might want to practice a bit on scrap leather, to find out if you need to file down the length of the eyelet a bit or not, some leather have a lot of give (spongy) and some are not when punched.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
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  8. Canuck Panda

    Canuck Panda Practically Family

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    Incoming custom jacket from Shawn:

    20210904_121351.jpg
    20210904_121433.jpg
    This was be my 3rd attempt at a natural patina jacket. My previous experiences, Aero and Simmons Bilt, turned out more orange/pink/yellow color and not deep cognac. In an attempt to get the deep cognac finish, I bought some cognac naked leather (from Maverick leather), and only use naked natural leather on the high wear spots. I hope this one will finally progress into the deep cognac finish.

    In hindsight though, I probably should have just went with Shawn's natural CHL, skived down to 2.5 oz. But I had already bought the Horween leather from Maverick, before Shawn even started offering the natural CHL, and before I had experienced the 1.7mm CHL, which I believe would wear a lot better if it were thinner.

    The shipping to Shawn was expensive. The leather from Maverick cost about 200 dollars. I paid about the same amount in shipping to Shawn, through Canada Poste, that took more than a month to get there. Covid definitely increased shipping cost and time.

    This is the first jacket I've done with Shawn that has any quilted parts. I sent him a photo of the Lewis racer jacket for quilting reference. And from his QC photos, I am more than happy the way it turned out.

    I'm pretty excited about this one!
     
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  9. PilotJens

    PilotJens One of the Regulars

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    144
    Looks great .
    I didn't know that they did quilting on heavier leather.But they sure do a lot of cheap fashion biker jackets
     
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  10. Canuck Panda

    Canuck Panda Practically Family

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    666
    @PilotJens I will know for sure when it gets here. But photos looks promising. The leather I sent him is about 3 oz.
     
  11. TheDonEffect

    TheDonEffect A-List Customer

    Messages:
    371
    New jacket day, my Cossack with detachable hood arrived in the skived down dark brown CHL leather.

    So let's get down to what most of you are likely interested in, the leather.

    The color is beautiful, dark brown with red undertones making it border on Bordeaux, dark burgundy, but still firmly brown. Imo, the color is perfect and is among the nicer browns I've seen, anything beyond this point is strictly splitting hairs or personal preference, I cannot find fault in the color.

    The sheen/shininess of the leather is comparable to the more dull batches of CXL than the shinier batches. I've seen a ton of CXL now at this point, and they vary, so mark this under the more dull, matte finishes. This is not a negative point, it still has a nice glow to it which I like, gives me high end baseball glove vibes, but it's not the high end Nieman Marcus luxury brand leather sheen some may like. I dig it though.

    Graining/character of the leather appears that it will get notably better in time. I can see on the larger, flat panels that didn't require much manipulation during the manufacturing process that it's flat in the smooth sense with no character. However with some manipulation the graining comes out nicely and has the same sort of character you get with Horween leathers. Nice tight, wrinkle type grains vs pebbling grains if that makes any sense. And the leather has a very slight pull up effect as well. I can't tell if the imperfections are from the hide or just from the manufacturing process, but having handled my share of stiffer CXL type leathers, it's par for the course and lends to the rugged nature of the leather. I'd say the CXL gives more dramatic effect, but again I'm on day 2 with this CHL leather, I don't think the ultimate payoff will be as good, but still very good. So all in all, good marks here.

    Drape, ounce for ounce it's about has heavy as my skived Horween CXL, but it's much less stiff out the box. It is is stiff, but it will not stand on its own. My Horween car jacket will stand on its own unbuttoned before I broke it in, and I can still sorta get to stand, but this jacket will not.

    But it doesn't mean it's more comfortable or pliable per se. If Horween CXL is cardboard/paper, then CHL is rubber. CXL will bend and crease, sharply in fact, and you can sorta feel the fibers breaking and then giving up. So CXL fights you until it doesn't. This CHL won't fight you as hard upfront, but it also feels more stubborn, and reminds me of hazmat suits/gloves. So upfront it's moderately easier to wear, but longer term before full break in, it's going to be a battle of wills.

    So I did get it to break in a little, but instead of tight sharp crease people love about CXL, CHL has more rounded creases, and I think this is a battle that will take some time to get to a point where it'll stop pinching and such.

    Scent, it's pretty generic, definitely does not have the sweet qualities of the leathers we love, it has a very generic manufacturered scent to it, it's not chemically or offensive, reminds me of fake leather smell, takes me back to shopping at the night markets in SE Asia. So not unpleasant or offensive, but I won't be taking a detour to the closest just to take a whiff. I love the smell of my Horween stuff, or my buttero wallet, heck I even like my naked aniline stock cowhide leather jacket, this is not inspiring.

    So in summary about the leather, color is great, graining is good, drape and wearability in some ways is better out the box but beyond that may not be as good vs Horween CXL.

    On to the build.

    Craftsmanship is good, actually really good especially considering the price. The workmanship I cannot really find fault, I mean sure if I was being nitpicky I can point out a few slightly wandering stitches or whatever else, but honestly I'm perfectly satisfied and feel I received a well made product.

    The issue is with the engineering of the jacket. Stiff leather is perhaps not their forte and it shows up throughout the jacket. The internal leather collar bunches up because of the stiff leather, causing the collar to not settle. There's no structural support to the actual collar in itself, making it hard to lay in a consistent manner. The internal panel lining the area under the button/holes also have the same bunching effect which requires me to constantly straighten it, and is perhaps the reason why cossacks typically have the cotton liner go all the way to the edge. I'm sure with a soft, pliable leather, these are non issues, but with a flexible, bouncy, rubbery leather, these issues manifest. So a bit TMI, but the way the aforementioned interior leather panel is orientated, along with the zippered pocket, yeah it keeps brushing and catching on my, ahem, sensitive points on my chest. The action back has almost no depth to it, giving barely any extra movement rendering it pointless, and it's cut too high so it's actually pretty pointless. I think there may be .5 inch of fold, but because the opening is so small, it's really only useful if I'm angling my arm to shake someone's hand, and not reaching forward for handlebars.

    As far as fit goes, the ownership is on me since it's my measurements, and they executed it to my specs. And that's sorta the rub here, going with one of the established makers, they know how to take your measurements, look at you, and then know how to apply their secret sauce to make a wearable garment while making it drape accordingly.

    I took the measurements of an existing jacket that I fit comfortably in, now I'll be the first to admit that knowing how stiff this leather is going to be I knew I was really rolling the dice by trying to make it fit more fitted, and mine came up snake eyes.

    So my better judgement was right, there's alot of ownership on the customer's side to send the right measurements. Actually, measurements is the wrong word here, it's specifications. There's a reason why when you get a tailored suit made, you often go for multiple fittings. Getting measured is easy, building to those specs is easy, but there's always other factors involved, Rolling the shoulders forward, or back, shoulder slope angle, where to roll out some stitching to balloon certain areas, where to tuck, etc. And then understanding the material you're working with, etc. Again, this is not a fault on 5*, they built it as contracted. But there will be some trial and error, and the pages upon pages on these forums reinforces that point.

    So in conclusion, I got a jacket with pretty nice leather, well made, but has engineering issues, and doesn't fit me in a way that makes it usable. So while it's a relatively inexpensive jacket when comparing to all the other makers, it is an expensive lesson, one that I have no interest in repeating. In short, 5* made me a beautiful jacket that due to no fault of their own, I can't wear.

    So my advice would be stick to their stock, soft leathers, since the fit will be much more forgiving, the engineering issues will not be noticeable, and I think you'll be extremely satisfied. But if you want a more "special" leather like a CXL, just pay the premium.

    Apologies for the crap picture. 20210906_224114.jpg 20210906_224244.jpg
     
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  12. handymike

    handymike I'll Lock Up

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    Great write-up!
     
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  13. Canuck Panda

    Canuck Panda Practically Family

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    @TheDonEffect

    This is the best write up on the CHL leather jacket, and covers sizing on custom jackets. Everyone who came here searching should read this at least twice.

    When CXL is warmed up, it becomes pliable leather. The CHL isn't stiff like cardboard from the start, but it also does not melt into pliable leather, it just remains its shape, like rubber retains its shape.

    I felt the same with my dark brown CHL jacket.
    I do have a handful of jackets that falls in this category, from different makers including 5*. My plan is to eventually fix every single one of them into wearable jacket. So far, I am 0 for 7.

    This quote should be pinned up top. If you want CXL, buy an Aero.

    FWIW, I am still going through with my black CHL project at 5*. $350 is a small price to pay to scratch my itch and answer to my curiosity.
    I would not suggest others to do the same.
    In the mean time, if you want a custom 5*, go with his goatskins. If you want CXL, get an Aero.
     
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  14. PilotJens

    PilotJens One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    144
    Lovely colour .I noticed the same rubbery tendency on the normal russet steer .But I can assure you that it goes away either with use or with a thicker coating of a thin leather oil (not mink oil because that would rot)
    My v1 Cossack got tumbled 8h in the dryer on high heat while being wet .Now it is buttery soft and my Daily Cossack V2 got worn and after conditioning the rubberynes went away .
     
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  15. TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead

    TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead One Too Many

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    1,614
    Excellent write up and I think you exactly summed up what I tried to say over several pages of this thread many months ago. Having gone through the Lewis Leather "customization" process, I understand better you can't just rattle off a bunch of numbers and have everything come together. They have certain formulas/ratios of you do this to waist and then XYZ needs to happen to the chest, etc. Now I'm not trying to compare LL with 5*, and in addition to design utilization, LL is trying to maintain a "look", but just fundamentally on a design level there's some hocus pocus that happens in the transition areas with the numbers that most of us are not equipped to understand. And as you noted, CXL or CHL or whatever is not going to be forgiving. I think some of us had better luck with the goat/steer/buffalo that had some forgiveness.

    Most things are a double edged sword. What we love about 5* is the ability to create literally anything. And I've mentioned this before, I don't know if it's a cultural thing, or just wanting to make the customer "happy" or they don't know better, but there isn't that level of "hey, you sure you want to do this because ...." That probably would save a lot of pain, but then again, at $300ish, what do you expect.

    I'd have no problem buying some flight jackets or the shearling vests I think are the real hidden gem here. But after my first frankenstein jacket and some other qc stuff, not worth it to hash it all up again, I decided long ago to look elsewhere. For me at least, if I really want a Buco J100, then I was just better off buying one. I know I'm lucky in some ways of being able to fit into many OTR sizes, so I won't pretend that that doesn't help the decision process. I totally get the lure if you need custom sizing or on the hunt for a grail jacket, especially at that price point. But man, two or three misses, and in many cases you could have bought the real thing.
     
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  16. TheDonEffect

    TheDonEffect A-List Customer

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    I get the feeling that this leather would benefit alot from having the absolute life beat out of it, as Ton has done, which will make it more wearable, but it won't overcome the engineering faults I've mentioned, so it may be wearable but then have some faults that will drive me nuts, like the collar. And mind you, I can't reach the collar while wearing it, lol.


    Well, I do remember early on they used to ship the jackets with a ton more room, and after some complaints, they eventually took the position of giving people what they ask for, so the responsibility doesn't fall back on them. Hey, you said 10", you got 10".

    And that's the difference between a designer and a producer, an architect and a contractor, chef vs cook, it's vision vs execution. They are great at making the product, but the design is what needs help.

    If you look at Field or Thedi, that's where they separate is their ability to design a jacket that looks good on the client. Why Vanson is so popular is because they seem to have the fit dialed in for their consumer base.

    It was a fun journey that didn't land me where I wanted to go, but I sorta knew that going in. This was a $350 gamble that if it paid off, could've landed me a jacket that should've cost 1000+, but instead I wound up with 0. If I placed the odds of success/failure at 50/50, then the expected payoff was worth taking the risk.

    I don't think a fit jacket would have helped either, the material makes such a huge difference that unless they made the fit jacket in the same material, it really would not matter.

    As I mentioned before, the real value is in the CHL, in that to get a made to order CXL jacket from anywhere will run you about 1000+, so at 350 the CHL is a true value. But stock leather like the goat, well... suddenly Vanson and JL look alot cheaper especially if you can visit them in person, because they will make you a jacket somewhere around 600-800, and that premium imo is definitely worth it.
     
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  17. Fonzie

    Fonzie One Too Many

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    1,287
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks for the great review!
     
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  18. Dionysus

    Dionysus New in Town

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    15
    Be careful of excessive formaldehyde in those cheap price leather.
     
  19. TREEMAN

    TREEMAN One Too Many

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    1,788
    Location:
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    Very interesting !!
     
  20. TheDonEffect

    TheDonEffect A-List Customer

    Messages:
    371
    Here are some better pics of the leather, the door and some of its character is better captured.

    Last pic is the inside of the collar that shows the bunching.

    20210907_223629.jpg 20210907_223729.jpg 20210907_223826.jpg 20210907_223847.jpg
     
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