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Hidden in Plain Schott: the 613SH Perfecto

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,708
If this helps, TooManyHats and I sort of concluded that this fits like an odd number between the standard Perfecto sizes.

So a 613SH in 42 fits in between a 618HH in 40 and 42, due to the slightly narrowed shoulders and otherwise different shape, even though the numbers are closer to the 42.
 

mumpy

A-List Customer
Messages
409
I have a 39.5/40 inch chest and I got the size 40 (I bought it used on ebay so didn't really have the option of a 42 at the time so went with it). I am happy with the fit, I can even layer with it just not too heavy stuff otherwise it is too tight zipping up.

For maximum versatility I would have gone for a 42 (back/front length I think are the same, as that would be my only concern).

Sleeves are a bit on the long side but since it creases they are now at the right length.
 

AerGuitar

A-List Customer
Messages
437
Location
Missouri
As of now in my Schott saga, the SH is the more comfy/roomy of the two. The standard 613 is starting to get there with daily wear and two nice walks in the rain for the two weeks I’ve owned it. The SH was very stiff when new, but I could still wear it with a thick hoodie and not feel suffocated. After a solid two weeks of wearing it everyday, and hitting it with a spray bottle, it started to relent a little. The turning point was getting it soaked. I let it sit in a sink full of cold water for about 15 minutes, then laid it flat and towel dried it until it wasn’t dripping. I then put it on over a wool base layer and thick hoodie and hopped on the Triumph for 100 mile ride. I wore it the rest of the day/night and left it zipped on the floor with some plastic cups inside to allow air flow, turned a box fan on low and let it dry overnight. Next day it was still damp, wore it all day with a thick sweater and left it to dry the same way overnight again. Was completely dry at that point, so I gave it a healthy dose of Urad Tenderly and wore it again all day. That night it was like a different jacket. I was nervous to try it, but no regrets at all. The sleeves lost an inch from creasing and the front length drew up about .5”. The hide is much softer, though still has a stiffer hand than the standard steer. Measurements as of now on my size 40 613sh are:
Pit to pit: 22.5”
Shoulder: 18”
Sleeve straight down: 24”
Back length: 24.5”
Front length: 26”
Hem: 19.5”

Compared to my standard 613 size 40:
Pit to pit: +22”
Shoulder: 17.5”
Sleeve straight down: 25”
Back length: 24.5” at longest point of “oval”
Front length: 25”
Hem: 20”
It may be worth noting that the cuff end of the sleeves have more of an aggressive taper on my standard 613 compared to the SH. Perhaps that is by design on the more riding oriented design of the two, or maybe a manufacturing variation, but it makes for a trickier time stuffing a thicker shirt on underneath.
 

mumpy

A-List Customer
Messages
409
Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the horsehide from 613SH is sourced from?
 

Arnold

One of the Regulars
Messages
195
Location
Europe
I'm not making an outlandish claim; I am stating the fundamentals about these jackets. Nevertheless, my source is factory spec sheets, the same forum posts you've read, conversations with the Schott family in person, conversations with the QC team at the factory, etc.

This has been Schott's standard practice with 1-series vs 6-series sizing for decades now. The 618 and 118 are the same pattern, except the size numbering is different. Additionally, the 118 gets a buckle snap by default and is marginally longer. The reason the Schott team describes the 618/613 as more of a riding jacket than the 118 is because the topcoat is much better at keeping away rain than the naked hide.

Yes, Gail said the 118 fits fuller than the 618, and when she explained what this means, she said that a size 40 618 is a size 38 118. I.e. graded one size bigger.



The PER62 is just a 618 in pigment finished cowhide, while the P628H is a 1940s/1950s aviator. The P677 is a CXL cross-zip in the standard fit, while the 519 is a 613S in slightly lighter cowhide. None of these is a "fashion" model.

The 125 is not more "serious" than the 618; they always offered attached belt and removable belt models. Beck jackets were mostly removable belt, whereas under the Schott label they offered both versions. The side lacing doesn't give you any additional V-taper, given it fastens directly at the hem; it plays the role that the belt does, in case the wearer is wearing the jacket without the belt, or is using the bridle belt as a duty belt.

Those models still had the same roughly 4" drop as the modern models so there wouldn't be a huge amount of extra chest space to pull in.

Here, my "source" is owning these jackets, plus the sources mentioned above.



The 641 has the same pile liner as the 141, however since the 90s Schott has labeled the naked cowhide jackets starting with 1-- and they are labeled one size different from the corresponding 6-- model.

Here, my source is the top category and trying on the jackets but I'm not much of a cafe racer fan so I never ended up buying one. Was tempted by the CAF1 though because it's an exact repro of the early Beck-Schott cafe racer and was about to buy the 689H only the sale timed out at the store I was ordering it from as I was trying to buy.
Please quote where I said that you had made "outlandish claims". I didn't. The reason I asked for your sources was because I was not excluding that your information might be right and mine might be wrong or misinterpreted by me. Why so sensitive?

However, I did look up a few emails from Schott, and if the sizing charts Denise sent me in 2021 are anything to go by, your version re: 618 vs 118 sizing is not supported. See attachments.

You might counter that tables are abstractions and don't reflect reality enough to support either version. I'd agree, but the six Schott leather jackets I've owned across four sizes (from 36 as a lanky youth to 42) weren't very uniform/ reliable in terms of sizing either; and I will maintain that from everything I've seen online, it looks like the 618 and even the 125's predecessors used to be significantly (like, up to two inches per size) shorter until the early 80s.

Let me know what you think, preferably without assuming hostile intentions on my part.
 

Attachments

  • 125vs618.zip
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Jaymig926

Familiar Face
Messages
67
For those with the 613s are the sleeves very narrow? In comparison to the regular 613 ?
If anyone has a size 42 and/or 44 613S can you check the bicep measurement
Thanks in advance very much
Jay
 

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,708
For those with the 613s are the sleeves very narrow? In comparison to the regular 613 ?
If anyone has a size 42 and/or 44 613S can you check the bicep measurement
Thanks in advance very much
Jay

The sleeves are comparable but look and feel slimmer due to the lack of underarm footballs. Still, there’s good range of movement.
 

Madhouse27

One of the Regulars
Messages
172
For those with the 613s are the sleeves very narrow? In comparison to the regular 613 ?
If anyone has a size 42 and/or 44 613S can you check the bicep measurement
Thanks in advance very much
Jay
Of all the Schott jackets that I’ve had, the 613sh has the best sleeves! Plenty of length, trim fit that kind of shows off the guns without being weirdly tight. Maybe 16-16.5 inches at the bicep on a size 44 if I’m measuring correctly.
 

Tom71

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,552
Location
Europe
For those with the 613s are the sleeves very narrow? In comparison to the regular 613 ?
If anyone has a size 42 and/or 44 613S can you check the bicep measurement
Thanks in advance very much
Jay

Yeah, pretty slim, but not so couldn´t layer. If in doubt or if you are in-between sizes, I would strongly recommend to size up one. The P2P on mine should be too big for me - in theory - but I hate to think I needed to squeeze into a smaller size.
 

RJD257

New in Town
Messages
9
The sleeves are comparable but look and feel slimmer due to the lack of underarm footballs. Still, there’s good range of movement.
Personally, I really dislike the underarm footballs, which were a clever invention/addition in the 80's. They're not really part of the original/classic pattern, and in jackets that are no longer meant for serious riding (Schott's are more a fashion piece now, than protective gear) the need to have them to reach for the bars seems needless.

I do my best to forget they are part of the 618HH that I got on Black Friday 2023 (...and is breaking in wonderfully....)

The patterns i like the best do NOT have the underarm footballs IMHO, but like everything else, your mileage may vary....
 

Jaymig926

Familiar Face
Messages
67
Jerri at Schott sent measurements for the Bicep area on the sleeves for the 613s a size 42 has a 14.5” round and a size 44 has a 15” round
With this leather can I expect some stretch on the bicep area ?
For those with a 42 and a 44 curious after some wear how yours measures vs the Schott measurements
Thanks for the help again very much !
Jay
 

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