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Discussion in 'WWII' started by Blackjack, Dec 21, 2015.
"Adi" is still so popular, worldwide...
Hitler and colleagues spotted recently at a small rooming house in Minehead, Somerset, England:
Just some thoughts: While I respect your opinion and recognize that a peripheral environment of information does exist leading this to be a worthy subject for investigation, it's my opinion that it was tapped out years ago. I suspect that like many of these controversies, people in the Entertainment Industry have cherry picked details to make the story as exciting as possible. That's their job.
I've seen season 1 and enjoyed it but was not impressed by their research, especially since they were on the ground where they could have done deeper investigations. Of course the false urgency created by their "ticking clock" approach acts as cover for not going deep as they could have if they were doing a legitimate investigation. My own take away from the show was a feeling of being tantalized and frustrated. The amount of repetition suggests they are stretching everything out to an unreasonable degree, much like the Oak Island show.
I think anyone who seriously subscribes to any of these "Hitler Escaped" theories (there was a popular "Hitler Escaped to Indonesia" flap a few years ago) needs to ask, "So what if he did?" If he never did anything interesting for the rest of what was probably a short life then it really doesn't matter if he lived or not. For myself, I'm open to all sorts of speculation but I only seriously care if the escape actually meant something historically. So far, I'm not seeing that. It would be a great story and I'd watch/read/whatever with rapt attention.
There have always been a number of Nazi aficionados who will tell you dozens of alternative histories about what happened to the Nazis after the war as the absolute truth. Everything from them forming invisible supra national governments to retreating to an enclave in Antarctica and being bombed into submission by the US as it used the Iraq War as a distraction cover for the operation. Amusing but not serious.
I suspect that there is a LOT of suspicious fragments of Nazi evidence lurking around Argentina and Chile. The show seems to stumble across some of these. That doesn't necessarily indicate Hitler himself. I've done dozens of interviews with people about events going back to the 1930s and always with "control" documentation to check their stories. It's fun to get people's impressions but memory plays STRANGE tricks and people will say anything for attention. Much of the time, especially with old people, I doubt they are even aware they are sucking up. We also have to realize that there are people in Argentina who certainly have things to hide but many of them relate to the country's post war history and have little connection to Germany.
As mentioned in the show there have been rumors of a pair of scuttled German subs off the coast of Argentina for DECADES and even some fair info on their position, that stuff is documented on either Uboat.net or a sister site I have forgotten the name of. These discussion forums are an amazing resource and, in their early days, even included posts from some WWII vets including one old guy who, as a teenager, made a desperate evacuation from a sinking sub over 100ft down. Amazing.
Unfortunately, every time I dig too deep into "Missing Nazi Subs" and the like I hit "evidence" offered by people who have what I consider to be an unhealthy fascination with the Third Reich. At a certain point things get both creepy and unbelievable quite quickly.
If memory serves, the guys on Uboat.net swear there are NO unaccounted for submarines though I could easily see the Germans building off the books type XXIs out of stockpiled elements (they were rather poorly built out of prefabed units like a Liberty ship) or by salvaging some of their own boats sunk in nearby waters.
Ultimately however, Hunting Hitler, while mentioning these uboats, doesn't even mention going through the motions with some of the best historians of that part of the war. I find this stuff fascinating and fun but I can't say I really believe it. I enjoy the heck out of The Man in the High Castle ... it's all the same sort of thing.
IOW, what is now known as "fake news". http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/06/opinion/l-hitler-never-really-was-schicklgruber-016390.html
That wasn't Hitler. That was Mr. Hilter...and Mr. Bimmler, Mr. MacGoring and, of course, Ron...Ron Vibbentrop.
If you like. The fact that it was his father's birth name, not his, was actually well-known in the Era, but calling him "Son of a petit-bourgeois Austrian Bastard" didn't quite carry the derisiveness implied in a spat-out Schicklgruber.
But we do know now, for a gods-honest-fact, that he did, in fact and truth, only have one ball. Goebbels, however, was by all accounts, and despite the song, fully equipped.
Oh man, you're right!
And here I was convinced at last and thinking that he'd survived the war all along, still plotting and scheming to take Stalingrad...
If I accepted that spitting derisively were more important than accuracy, and staying on point was more desirable than diversions to Colonel Bogey's March, then perhaps we would agree on the clarity of the Schicklgruber reference.
BTW, the bigoted "humor" regarding Germanic names is offensive. My father-in-law lost his surname due to such 20th century bigotry. Think about some of the other humor of "the Era", repeating it in civil society.
Very well. Adolf was a pyorrheaic, hyper-flatulent, monorchidic son of a petit-bourgeois Austrian bastard. But he wasn't a Schicklgruber.
And to lighten the mood a bit...
For what it's worth I'm a strong believer in refusing to give Hitler and his cult of twisted sociopathic deviants any respect in any form whatsoever at any time for any reason. Mocking and deriding them in every way possible at every time possible deprives them of any possible posthumous power. "Right in der Fuehrer's Face."
Enjoyed that film! Thanks for the smile.
I did watch another episode! My problem is, they find an abandoned military complex in Argentina, then go straight to Hitler starting the Fourth Rich there. Yes there were ex NAZI's in Argentina, and I am sure Juan Peron knew, and used them, just like we had our NAZI's. But there is zero evidence that any A bomb was detonated south of the boarder and believe me, the powers that be were constantly looking for seismic activity and radioactive material in the atmosphere! Then they decide that the NAZI's detonated an A bomb in Germany, all on the testimony of one woman! At the very least hundreds of people would have seen the flash of the bomb if it had been detonated! Then they take a true event and twist it around. Yes there was a plan drawn up to attack New York City with bombers. But it was shelved do to the fact that the bombers would all have to ditch in the ocean. There was no A bomb, though some talk of a dirty bomb. They just go from the hypothesis A, straight to a finding Z, with no concrete evidence in between!
The loony thing about this show is that there is "evidence" (as in the kind conspiracy buffs accept) that there was an A Bomb test or even two in Germany during the war. Now I don't actually believe this but there is proof that some far out types (Joseph Farrell and that sort) accept ... but the show doesn't even seem aware enough of these rumors to bolster it's own arguments. It's the same issue as the scuttled Argentine U Boats I mentioned above. They are presenting wacko theories yet they seem unaware of the history of wacko theories! Some History Channel!
All that said, one of the conspiracy stories that lurk "out there" about the Nazi Bomb is that they created the A Bomb yet were so fixated on going the distance and using it as a detonator for an H Bomb that they failed to commit to an A Bomb production program. Like I said, I don't believe it, but that theory is oddly in line with the Nazi weapons development mentality; obsess over weapons that have to potential to awe your enemies into submission, into the acceptance that you really are supermen, to the detriment of putting a 20th century rifle in every soldier's hand and delivering them to battle on trucks, rested and well fed. Perfect was to often the enemy of good ... for their own good. Arrogance doesn't win wars.
Argentina did have a civil nuclear fusion programme that turned out to be a near total fraud. I just can't remember the codename for it, it was during the Peron era. They also employed Kurt Tank on their aircraft projects. Can't remember if it was them or Brazil that was running an A bomb project.
I'm aware of the Ronald Richter (?) "fusion" project, also rumored to have been a Zero Point energy project. Whatever it was it was both odd and probably didn't stand a chance of working. But I'm unaware of the South American A Bomb story ... as in the "supposedly" true one you mention above. I'd love to get some info or a lead on some info so I can follow up.
Pops did write "The Goose Flies South" in 1947 about a post War Nazi A Bomb test in Chile, but I really don't think that's what you are referring to!
The bomb-test on the military-training area Ohrdruf, in March 1945, wasn't a remarkable thing. It must have been just an experiment with any type of a little fusion-bomb, but nothing special. The german atomic-program was on a very weak level of development. That's all we know, today.
One of the most interesting things around Ohrdruf:
It's supposed, that a top secret SS-weapon-research center existed underground, on the military-training area Ohrdruf. And all we know, is, that the older said, this underground facility was so well concealed, that it will never be found.
But, we of course don't know, what the Bundeswehr found in 1992, for real.
So, since many years, the whole "Ohrdruf-topic" is dead. There's nothing new.
I do have a glimmer of hope for this show! What I mean by that is, maybe some real researchers will look into all these different structures, so maybe, we will know why the really were built!
I like that approach! Even if what comes out is Grandpa built it for the donkeys. I have fun watching this show but it's mostly for the footage of odd places in Argentina and stuff like that. I've taken to calling it "Hunting History on the Hitler Channel."
What's the old Charlie Sheen line from Two & A Half Men: "it's always Hitler week on The History Chanel!"
Teller (in his memoirs) was convinced that Heisenberg purposely (was way too smart) made mistakes to stall the development.