Is this a Cavanagh edge?

[LordBest]

Does my Churchill Ltd fedora have a Cavanagh edge? Here is a close up:

I can see no sign of stitching but it the brim edge is considerably thicker than the rest of the brim, but it smooths down with no apparent seam. The underside is perfectly flat, untouched felt.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

looks like it could be. How about flipping the brim 90 degrees and taking another pic. (so, a horizontal rather than a vertical pic so we can see upper and under side.)

bk

 

[LordBest]

Hard to do I'm afraid, the brim had quite a snap to it which makes rather difficult to get a decent picture, but I did my best, took a horizontal picture and one of the underside of the brim for good measure.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Yes, LB, if it has no visible stitching, then you're correct.

There were various manufacturer terms for this treatment after Cavanagh initially established it. Dobbs called their's the Guild Edge, Stetson; the Mode Edge and so forth.

I believe the general term is a 'felted-in edge'.

Nice looking example you have there. And your new avatar pic looks very refined.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

thanks for the new pic. It looks like a Cavanagh/self-felted/hand-sealed/Mode/Guild edge to me … I had a similar stingy Resistol at some point that i gave to Brad Bowers to dissect the self felted edge. I never saw the results of the dissection, but someday, i hope to. How 'bout it Brad?

bk

 

[LordBest]

Thanks to both of you, I'm chuffed, did not even know what a cavanagh edge was until a few days ago, after reading about it though I should check what kind of edge my hat had. Imagine my surprise.
Come to think of it, I'm damned unobservent, not taking notice of the edge for over a month.

 

[Feraud]

Just wait until you start looking for zipper, button stance, collar, and the myriad other period details we harp on around here.

 

[anon`]

Just wait until you start looking for zipper, button stance, collar, and the myriad other period details we harp on around here.

It's a vicious cycle...

 

[tortswon]

I thought it was a 1952 Vincent Black Lightening.

 

[Brad Bowers]

thanks for the new pic. It looks like a Cavanagh/self-felted/hand-sealed/Mode/Guild edge to me … I had a similar stingy Resistol at some point that i gave to Brad Bowers to dissect the self felted edge. I never saw the results of the dissection, but someday, i hope to. How 'bout it Brad?

bk

Sorry it's taken this long, bk, but you'll see why from the photo: I can't get a really good photo with my digital camera.

Not that there is much to see.lol One thing is obvious in person, though maybe not so much in the photo: The felt is not felted as tightly in the center of the edge, where the two halves of the welt come together, but that's to be expected due to its thickness compared to the rest of the brim. It is still felted together, and will not come apart on its own.

This is a first patent edge, I'm fairly certain. If anyone used either the second or third patent method, I think the less-felted area would be more prominent, but that's only my hypothesis. Not that I plan to ever test it.

I felt bad enough sacrificing this stingy brim for the sake of research, but bk was gracious enough to aid in the research.

Someday I'll get better photos for a more in-depth work on the subject. I also have to get photos of my '70s Cavanagh stingy with a Cavart Edge that replaced the Cavanagh, where it was glued down.

As for the hat that is the topic of this post, I concur that it is most likely a Cavanagh Edge, but it could also be a Stack Edge (my name) for an edge that is formed with a special iron that crimps a thickened edge into raw edge, and is not a true Cavanagh-style welt. The only reason I offer this is because there is a lack of definition in the profile of the edge in those photos, compared to most Cavanagh Edges. But, this low profile Cavanagh Edge could also be done by "over finishing" the edge, too, so there's no way to be certain.

Brad

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

I've read that some were actually stitched and then felted over so the stitching is covered. Also, that some have a small chord running through the welt to give it the thickness inside.

 

[Matt Deckard]

It might very well be, though what does it look like on the other side?

there are many types of edges other than the Cavanagh... welted and bulging in their own ways. Is the other side flat?

 

[LordBest]

Pretty much flat yes, sometimes I think I can make out a slight bulge in the felt, when the light hits it a certain way (it is like looking at crop shadows, fur felt archaeology).

 

[Matt Deckard]

I've seen rougher ones in the 50's, though i'd say yes, it's a cavanagh.

We used to call it a self felted edge though we got word a while back that Cavanagh trademarked the edge... many companies used it, many had their own names for it, though I think we here at the Lounge are really the ones that gave it the trade name of Cavanagh Edge.

 

[glazierman]

I have 3 vintage cavenaghs and 2 have the cav edge.

the grey one is a new old stock that i found at the local hat shop in Portland.I bought it for myself for my 50th birthday.

here is a closeup of the edge on the black one

 

[tonyb]

I've read that some were actually stitched and then felted over so the stitching is covered. Also, that some have a small chord running through the welt to give it the thickness inside.

Many of us can verify the part about stitching. Well-worn Cavanagh (Mode, Guild, Custom, etc.) edges are known to reveal those formerly felted-over stitches. This typically happens at the front of the brim, where handling has eroded the surface to the point that the stitches show. I've had a couple of 'em like that, and have seen several others. It's the sort of thing only we hat nuts would ever pay any mind, though.

 

[Captain Peacock]

I’m about to purchase a 1930s Knox fedora with a 2 1/2 inch wide brim and Cavanagh edge! It’s moss green!