Pile, Ecuador. The finest paja toquilla sombreros in the world.

[Panamabob]

Sombreros de paja toquilla = Panama Hat

The best Panama Hats come from Montecristi, but they are woven in Pile and Pampas.

Here are some photos from Pile.

This is the home of one of the best weaving families, Los Espinal.

The famous Simon Espinal (and some fat guy from Indiana). Arguably the best hat weaver in the the world.

This is Simon and his daughter. She's 15 and weaves spectacular hats.

 

[feltfan]

Outstanding!

Thanks so much for these glimpses into
another world.

I could say so many things, but at first I am
most struck by how little I see- how few things-
when even a used tire is put to use. And by how barren
the soil appears to be. They create luxury items,
but not in luxury.

Looking forward to more pictures from the home
of Panama hats.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

what a beautiful place! Just the kind of place i like to visit ...

bk

 

[Panamabob]

You can see that the weavers are really getting rich off of those hats that cost 4 and 5 digits.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

powerful unions, no doubt, the reason for the weavers notorious riches.

bk

 

[mauriciogray]

I will politicize.

“They create luxury items, but not in luxury.”

I agree with feltfan...

I’m living in Argentina.
I think Panamabob maybe don’t understand the Latinoamerica sad reality.
Panamabob, you do a great work and (maybe) you aren’t a bad person but the Espinals could be more prosperous with the exchange they have with you.

Baron Kurtz... maybe I’ll sound like a marxist but you don’t know how beautiful is this place when you live there. I feel lucky to be a middle class person but theses pictures isn’t picturesques. (is picturesques right feltfan?)

I’m sorry but I firmly believe that.
The world could be better with a little bit of solidarity.

Sorry again.

 

[squid]

Thank you for the pictures. I look forward to any others you may post.

Do you sell any hats made my the young lady? Maybe I can't afford one now, but I think it would be great to support the next generation.

 

[SheikhDaoud]

I think you have misunderstood, Mauricio

Panamabob is a big boy and is perfectly capable of defending himself against what I think are some unfair inferences that Mauricio has drawn from the pictures of Pile that have been posted. However, I do want to say a few things:

1) The best (i.e., finest woven) Panama hats to be found are of the Montecristi variety, and the best of these are woven in the Ecuadorian villages of Pile and Pampas. There are a limited number of master weavers left in these two villages, and Panamabob has shown us a picture of one of them, Mr. Espinal.

2) As I understand it, the weavers, like Mr. Espinal, weave the hats over a period of months and when they are completed they sell them to middle men who in turn sell them to wholesalers who send them to dealers or clients in Ecuador or overseas. There may be one or more other middlemen whom I am forgetting. In any case, whoever the retail dealer is -- Panamabob or Brent Black or the guy in Santa Fe -- the Montecristi hats they are selling come from the same limited group of weavers. But, the price can differ by as much as 1000%...yes, you read right...one thousand percent. Do a Google search on Panama hats, Mauricio, and see for yourself what the price differential is amongst dealers. You will see that Panamabob is by far the most reasonable because, as he says on his website, he believes in keeping the weavers weaving. And if his most expensive hat is about $800, whereas others are asking $10,000 for the same hat, one should I think take Panamabob at his word.

3) How much money the weavers actually see from the sale of a Panama hat is unknown to me because I am just a consumer (one book called Panama The Legendary Hat, which I find utterly distasteful but is full of nice pictures, claims that the weavers see 10% of the sales price). But, don't assume that the people whose pictures you have seen are unhappy simply because they live in conditions that you find less than desirable. In my own second country, Bolivia, I have often come across people who would not exchange their lives in an unheated adobe hut on the freezing Altiplano for anything in the world. To claim that such people should be living better or with more amenities is simply a form of cultural elitism.

If this is a rant, I apologize. It's just that I think we need to look at people through their own eyes as well as through our own.

 

[Dinerman]

I do believe panamabob was being sarcastic

 

[squid]

Panamabob is a big boy and is perfectly capable of defending himself against what I think are some unfair inferences that Mauricio has drawn from the pictures of Pile that have been posted. However, I do want to say a few things:

1) The best (i.e., finest woven) Panama hats to be found are of the Montecristi variety, and the best of these are woven in the Ecuadorian villages of Pile and Pampas. There are a limited number of master weavers left in these two villages, and Panamabob has shown us a picture of one of them, Mr. Espinal.

2) As I understand it, the weavers, like Mr. Espinal, weave the hats over a period of months and when they are completed they sell them to middle men who in turn sell them to wholesalers who send them to dealers or clients in Ecuador or overseas. There may be one or more other middlemen whom I am forgetting. In any case, whoever the retail dealer is -- Panamabob or Brent Black or the guy in Santa Fe -- the Montecristi hats they are selling come from the same limited group of weavers. But, the price can differ by as much as 1000%...yes, you read right...one thousand percent. Do a Google search on Panama hats, Mauricio, and see for yourself what the price differential is amongst dealers. You will see that Panamabob is by far the most reasonable because, as he says on his website, he believes in keeping the weavers weaving. And if his most expensive hat is about $800, whereas others are asking $10,000 for the same hat, one should I think take Panamabob at his word.

I see a lot of comments about Brent Black and this guy in Santa Fe selling expensive hats. I have no idea who the guy in Santa Fe is, but I've spent a lot of time reading Brent Black's website. I also own a Brent Black hat. We have exchanged a few emails, and we spoke on the phone a few minutes several years ago. I can't say that I know him personally, but he seems like a very nice person.

It seems that he is not the most popular hatter on this board. In fact I have noticed that most of the time his name is mentioned it isn't in a positive tone. The general opinion seems to be that he is grossly overpricing hats. On his website he says "I never quibble about price. I just pay what the weavers ask, sometimes more than they ask." This doesn't make good business sense, and it doesn't sound very capitalist at all. It does sound like he is putting money into the hands of the weavers. The same article also mentions the Montecristi Foundation that works to improve conditions for the weavers. He also has a listing in the Robb Report which gives more exposure to the people willing to pay 5 digits for a hat. This could increase demand for the highest quality hats and encourage the weavers to become more skilled.

If he is getting fat while shafting the weavers then there is room for someone to move in on the market. Right now we have two businesses that are competing at different ends of the market. Brent Black if selling hats to people who want an expensive hat and a brand that he has worked to build. Panamabob is putting hats in the hands of people who can't afford a Brent Black hat and/or the bargin hunters. While there will be some overlap one demographic isn't going to buy from the other demographic's seller. By opening both ends of the market (hopefully) demand for quality hats is increasing, and (hopefully) the weavers will see this and increase the supply. I know there are other people selling high quality Montecristi hats, but I use these two as an example.

I have no idea how much profit Mr Black keeps, but I believe a businessman deserves to benefit from his work. It looks to me like he is working as hard to save the art of hat weaving as anybody else. If someone disagrees with what I have said, or what he has on his website, then let's discuss it.

 

[Andykev]

It's a philosophy

If anyone has read "The Panama , A Legendary Hat" or the "The Panama Hat Trail" will know the history of this fine product.

Panama Bob has a passion for helping the conditions of the folks ...


People in America have a similar passion: buy cheap and sell high. We do it in retail, real estate, and everything else. Who would complain about making a tidy sum in a sale? It is called "PROFIT". Some look at it as "EXPLOITATION".

Ah..but those in the Third World Countries...they don't get to play the game.

 

[Panamabob]

I do know of two things that the people in Pile want: fair wages for more than one weaver and a better high school. I'll be working on both.

 

[Matthew Dalton]

With the prices I've seen, I really thought even getting a small amount of the money earned on these hats would translate into much more material wealth for them.

 

[Panamabob]

I think Panamabob maybe don’t understand the Latinoamerica sad reality.

I understand perfectly. I was being mean. Sorry! I lived in Latin America for about 3 years. I understand the plight. Entiendo perfectamente. Estaba malo. Disculpame. Vivi en Latinoamerica casi 3 años. Entiendo la plaga de la vida.

This doesn't make good business sense, and it doesn't sound very capitalist at all.

It makes perfect sense if you pay $500.00 for something, sell it for $8000.00 and then give another 6% back. Who "makes out like a devil"?

Bolivia, I have often come across people who would not exchange their lives in an unheated adobe hut on the freezing Altiplano for anything in the world. To claim that such people should be living better or with more amenities is simply a form of cultural elitism.

The people that I know do want changes in their lives. They don't necessarily want to move away, but they do want modern conveniences and want their families to be secure. They want a better school system and they want a future for their families. Our new not-for-profit will help the school situation (WE HOPE!) and by not putting premium prices on the hats, we can sell more and more and give hundreds of people a reason to practice their craft.

 

[SheikhDaoud]

Amen to that

And good luck, Panamabob, with the school project. It certainly is impressive.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I do believe panamabob was being sarcastic

That goes for me, too. Sarcasm is so difficult to portray on chat boards. You have to put one of those dumb smiley things after everything you say.

If it's solidarity you want, i'd say PanamaBob is yer man.

bk

 

[feltfan]

Definitely not picturesque.

Mauriciogray, a lot of us have read many messages
from Panamabob before, so we know he cares about
the people of Ecuador. That's why we can joke. The
business of Panama hats is not fair, and Panamabob
seems to be making an honest effort to give back to
that community and to honor their craft. I hope I
didn't confuse you with my earlier comments.

“They create luxury items, but not in luxury.”

I agree with feltfan...

I’m living in Argentina.
I think Panamabob maybe don’t understand the Latinoamerica sad reality.
Panamabob, you do a great work and (maybe) you aren’t a bad person but the Espinals could be more prosperous with the exchange they have with you.

Baron Kurtz... maybe I’ll sound like a marxist but you don’t know how beautiful is this place when you live there. I feel lucky to be a middle class person but theses pictures isn’t picturesques. (is picturesques right feltfan?)

I’m sorry but I firmly believe that.
The world could be better with a little bit of solidarity.

Sorry again.

 

[mauriciogray]

I think Panamabob is right... I’m sorry Panamabob, I talked with no idea about your work. I hope you can forgive me. Now, I'm still angry with Nike.
The education is the most important help. Is a slow way but the best way of all.

"But, don't assume that the people whose pictures you have seen are unhappy simply because they live in conditions that you find less than desirable. In my own second country, Bolivia, I have often come across people who would not exchange their lives in an unheated adobe hut on the freezing Altiplano for anything in the world. To claim that such people should be living better or with more amenities is simply a form of cultural elitism."

But, in Bolivia, Peru, Paraguay, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela or any latin america country the people wants a better life, progress and education. We want better governments and better life conditions. For example, I’m unemployed when I have university studies. All people in the world wants the same in their lifes.

Feltfan, I still think the work conditions could be betters.

 

[squid]

I do know of two things that the people in Pile want: fair wages for more than one weaver and a better high school. I'll be working on both.

Please explain what you mean by fair wages for more than just one weaver.

 

[feltfan]

Feltfan, I still think the work conditions could be betters.

!Por supuesto!

Their work conditions and of course their
living conditions could be much better.
And considering the prices these hats command
from many sellers, if the weavers received their
fair share, they would live better. But unfortunately,
the weaver rarely gets his fair share.