Pleats Down on a Cummerbund?

[OldSkoolFrat]

Just found out that the part of military, "mess dress" includes a cummerbund, even women wear one as part of the uniform, but that they wear the pleats facing downwards. Please don't ask me to quote the Army/Navy/USMC/Coastguard/AirForce manual or anything, but I heard it, and verified it with an army Lt. buddy, he did not even know, he asked his NCO and the NCO said that yes, pleats face down. Smart Lt. BTW, when in doubt ask the E-8.

We civies wear them up. Does anyone know how it got started and written in stone that Civilians wear them up and the military wears them down? When did this stylistic rift occur? Anybody know or have an hypothesis?

 

[Paisley]

As I recall (keep in mind I've been out of the service for a very long time), they are worn facing down. Doesn't that keep the bread crumbs out of your cummerbund?

 

[OldSkoolFrat]

Perchance

If they are issued to GI's (officers must buy them) and to be turned back in would wearing them face down keep them cleaner longer?

 

[melankomas]

the US Army men and women wear pleats facing down per AR 670-1. however, the US Air Force must wear pleats up, per AFI 36-2903. i can't, at present, recall when this came about.

 

[OldSkoolFrat]

Army Air Corps

When did the USAF separate from the Army? Maybe they followed the civilian pattern as that was changing too at the same time in American culture?

 

[melankomas]

1947, autumn.

 

[griffer]

but its to CATCH THE CRUMBS.... oh the madness....

And ties evolved from bibs to protect shirts, and i have ties more expensive than my shirts. and they are notorious stain magnets. and the are uncleanable*.



*trust me, it's a word. i swear.

 

[Mr. Sable]

I heard somewhere that the pleats go up so you can put your theatre/opera/hat check tickets in them.

 

[GentlemanFarmer]

Usually the pleats aren't deep enough to place anything substantial.

I'm voting down to keep the crumbs out. Come to think about it seriously, I have a vest, not a cumberbund with my tux.

 

[Mr. Sable]

One could also argue that to avoid getting crumbs in one's cummerbund, one should be a more careful and deliberate eater.

 

[Paisley]

A gentleman never crumbles his bread or rolls in his soup.

 

[Fletch]

However, a soldier will roll in his soup on command.

 

[Mike in Seattle]

but it's to CATCH THE CRUMBS.... oh the madness....

And ties evolved from bibs to protect shirts, and I have ties more expensive than my shirts. And they are notorious stain magnets. And they are uncleanable*.

*trust me, it's a word. i swear.

EXACTLY...pleats up TO catch crumbs. That's where the idea for them came from.

 

[melankomas]

One could also argue that to avoid getting crumbs in one's cummerbund, one should be a more careful and deliberate eater.

one could also argue that the eating habits learned in basic training, where one must eat what one can in a period of approximately three minutes, are difficult to break. though, in rebuttal of myself, i expect one to be fairly far from basic by the time one is able to sit and eat in mess dress. near to basic, one might stand and serve, but isn't likely to sit and eat.

 

[JD Boswell]

The Navy wears their cumberbund with the pleats facing up!

 

[Mr. Lucky]

EXACTLY...pleats up TO catch crumbs. That's where the idea for them came from.

Oh. Save them as a snack for later, I guess.

 

[Fletch]

The Army obviously wants pleats facing down in order to direct any crumbs towards the floor, the better to chew out the clean-up detail when one is missed.

 

[melankomas]

The Army obviously wants pleats facing down in order to direct any crumbs towards the floor, the better to chew out the clean-up detail when one is missed.

this is an excellent point.

 

[carebear]

http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/images/PlateV.jpg

 

[carebear]

http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/images/PlateIV.jpg