Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by Matt Jones, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. dubpynchon

    dubpynchon Practically Family

    Messages:
    942
    Location:
    Ireland
    I have an original (from 1967 or so) in kersey and a Schott 740n in melton. The original is the more impressive coat, the quality is very high and it's hard to imagine so many being made so quickly at such high standard, it couldn't happen these days. On the other hand I wear the Schott more, it's warmer as it has a polyester lining. For warmth though you can't beat sheepskin.
     
  2. Nigel Doe

    Nigel Doe New in Town

    Messages:
    1
    Hi Everyone,

    I've been reading the forums for a while, mostly about other clothing styles, and this is my first post.

    I've been considering buying a Peacoat for years and soon decided I wanted to buy vintage. I finally found one that's the right size:

    It's Dark Navy, unlined, 7 button with light brown corduroy pocket lining. It has a white label stating "Manufactured for Naval Clothing Depot". From my own limited knowledge gained from this forum I've estimated that it's post 1950 and pre-1968.

    Most of the damage I can repair, and I can live with some wear. It's part of the jacket. However what I'm not sure I can live with are brown marks on the edge of the lapels, in the image attached. I'm not sure if this is just dirt or where the material has faded.

    Does anyone have any views on the age and what these marks could be?

    Thanks.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Peacoat

    Peacoat Bartender Bartender

    Messages:
    5,523
    Location:
    South of Nashville
    Don't know why I missed this post when it came through last month.

    But to answer your questions, your coat is between 1949 and 1955. If I had a picture of the tag, I could get it closer. As to the marks on the lapel, don't know what it is.

    Later today, I am going to move this to the major Peacoat thread.

    And a belated welcome to the Lounge. PC
     
    AbbaDatDeHat likes this.
  4. eclipse7309

    eclipse7309 New in Town

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Hey all,

    New to the lounge.

    I’ve read MUCH of the info on here and elsewhere about peacoats, specifically WWII era. A lot of this thread, as well as Peacoat’s “peacoat dating” thread.

    I’ve been on the market for a new peacoat for a while. I’ve had a Sterlingwear “Classic” for well over 10 years and wanted to get something a little more serious, so I’ve been trying to find a legit WW2 era coat.

    I recently picked one up on ebay and was wondering if I could ask a couple questions.

    I’m trying to basically verify the authenticity of this coat I got. It has all/many of the hallmarks of a WWII era USN peacoat:

    - 10 button front (8 visible) (one is loose and has blue thread which I may have re sewn sometime)

    -"Naval Clothing Factory / Name / Rate" tag under inside right chest pocket

    -Collar tag reading:
    "Size 40
    US Naval
    Clothing Factory
    Brooklyn N.Y.
    Inspector J.O.”

    -1 stitch 3” above sleeve cuffs

    -Single center back vent

    -Storm tab to fasten collar when collar is up (those 3 little buttons have the fouled anchor)

    -Dark blue soft & seemingly thick wool shell. Obviously would be Kersey if era is correct etc.
    This is where I have a couple questions…

    The condition of the wool seems to be pretty much excellent. However, after looking at SO many pictures of Kersey wool coats, vs. Melton wool coats, one thing I keep noticing about Kersey when viewed from close up is a kind of cross stitch looking pattern to it. My coat doesn’t have this at all. It *does* have a denser softer feel than melton (like as opposed to my late 60’s USN bridge coat which is of course melton), but it doesn’t have the sort of weave/pattern ive seen on other kersey coats. It’s more of a flat looking texture.

    The other thing I noticed is that in addition to MANY loose threads (outside under sleeves, next to inside pockets, stitching around outside pockets, stitching on cuffs) there also seems to be some sort of careless looking stitching on this coat. The triangles on the top/bottom of the outside pockets doesn’t always “line up”. And most noticeable is the stitch on the left sleeve that’s 3 inches up doesn’t line up when it comes back around to the other side of the sleeve seem. It’s about 3/8th of an inch off.

    If this coat is indeed from the 40’s / at 75+ years old, some of this might be understandable, but it’s peculiar because the wool and the lining look to be in such great shape. I'm slightly wondering if the lining and other parts of the coat were just poorly redone, thus the loose threads, but I have very limited knowledge of tailoring etc. and just don't know.. The lining also looks a little different / more shiny than others I've seen online.

    I’ll attach some pictures of the coat illustrating the above, if anyone wants to take a look and offer some insight. There’s a few of these kicking around on ebay, and I can return this one for the next couple weeks, but I went with it cuz it looked great in the pictures, seems to fit well, and had the actual collar tag with a size actually on it. Some pics with and without flash. It's quite difficult to get anywhere close with color accuracy with such a dark blue, but it is indeed a dark blue..

    One last sort of anecdote about the wool/coat. I was recently out in the grocery store and spotted someone wearing an almost identical coat to this. I asked him where he got it and he was very nice and said his was his grandfather’s from WW2. I didn’t get a super close look at it but from what I saw it seemed to put me just a bit at ease about the the authenticity of mine. Perhaps when you see that cross threading pattern on kersey it means it’s a bit worn?

    Happy to share more pics if anyone would like.

    Discuss!

    Thanks very much for reading all.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Peacoat

    Peacoat Bartender Bartender

    Messages:
    5,523
    Location:
    South of Nashville
    Your coat is very much authentic. It is prior to 1945. The sloppy stitch work can be attributed to war time production. The Navy needed coats and they needed a lot of them.
     
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  6. eclipse7309

    eclipse7309 New in Town

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Thanks Peacoat!
    That makes a lot of sense, I'd wondered about that a little. I guess she's a keeper than :)
    Do you or anyone here have any thoughts on the varying appearances of Kersey? I'm just interested.
    Lastly, there's no traces of a name on the tags or lining etc. of this coat. Is it possible that whoever I bought it from on ebay had their hands on deadstock this old?
    Anyway, thanks again.
     
  7. Sonero

    Sonero Practically Family

    Messages:
    815
    Location:
    San Diego / Tijuana
    Beautiful Coat.

    I have never seen an authentic with that type of collar closure. I own maybe 5 peacoats.

    The Sterling I own is my least favorite. It fits like a tailored blazer and at only 28 ounces it barely stops the windchill. Perfect for Southern California but I wouldn't bring it back East with me to NYC.

    I recently picked up a newer Schott version made in the USA. 32 oz melton wool with flap pockets and 10 buttons. A beauty but the Kernsey wool of the vintage coats are no match for it.

    My vintage coats from Ebay were roughly $80 each and so worth it.
     
  8. eclipse7309

    eclipse7309 New in Town

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Thanks!
    I thought the WW2 era coats all that "throat latch" or "storm tab" that goes across the front of the collar to close it, but I could be mistaken.

    Regarding Sterlingwear & Schott:
    I'm local to NYC and recently spoke with Jim Korn who is the 3rd generation owner of Kaufman's Army Navy on W42nd - where I bought a late 60's bridge coat a couple years ago.. Very cool place and he has quite a wealth of knowledge. Oldest store on 42nd st today (1946).
    He sells the Schott 740's and what's left of the latest Sterlingwear coats - the USN regulation one. When I asked him about differences between the two he said, "about 10 or so years ago, when Sterlingwear entered the civilian/NY market, they decided they had to make a coat similar to Schott's to compete with it. Schott uses reprocessed wool and Sterlingwear uses virgin wool, so technically the Sterlingwear is a superior garment." That's also why they make one like I have, the "classic" model, with a quilted lining / slim fit / a bit short. Interesting to note that I got my civilian model at an Army / Navy surplus store in CT in 2010. The USN Sterlingwear at Kaufman's (which is what was being issued in the USN until a couple years ago when they phased out peacoats as being standard issue), was a much less slim fit and had non quilted, old school lining.
    With all that being said, between trying both of the aforementioned, I thought the Schott felt quite a bit more rugged/sturdy, and that's it's an excellent choice for a heavy peacoat. That must have to do with Schott being 32oz and Sterlingwear being 24, at least according to what I've read. Though if you check this link out, you can that the weight of wool can get confusing with Sterlingwear as they're latest USN regulation coat was 24oz but some of the civilian coats like the one I have are 320z. http://www.sweatershoppe.com/sterlingmenspeacoat.html
    Lastly, I love Schott, especially for their leather stuff, but I keep wondering, if they made coats for the Navy during WW2, why their current and long standing 740 is quite different from all these legit vintage coats available online.

    Thanks again for the reply.
     
    Sonero likes this.
  9. Sonero

    Sonero Practically Family

    Messages:
    815
    Location:
    San Diego / Tijuana
    I used to shop at Kaufmans when I was 13 years old. Young guy with glasses very friendly owned the place. He must be an old man by now :)

    Thanks for the lowdown.
     
  10. eclipse7309

    eclipse7309 New in Town

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    You're welcome and wow that's awesome, I bet it was Jim.
    Cheers.
     
    Sonero likes this.
  11. Peacoat

    Peacoat Bartender Bartender

    Messages:
    5,523
    Location:
    South of Nashville
    All of the WWII coats have the throat latch.

    As to the Stealingwear USN regulation coat * now being sold at Kaufman's, I wonder if that is accurate. SW made about 4 versions of the civilian models. The regulation coat wasn't advertised, and it took a telephone call to special order it. Although I guess it is possible that SW had to unload the stock it was stuck with when the Navy unwisely abandoned the peacoat.
    _____
    * Issuance of the new Navy peacoat that replaced the Kersey version began in 1980. The shell is much lighter than the original. It is made warm by adding a liner.
     
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  12. eclipse7309

    eclipse7309 New in Town

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Thanks Peacoat. It may be that the Sterlingwear coat at Kaufman's is the "Navigator", which according to this link that talks about the 4 civilian models (how I figured out mine is the 'Classic') the "Navigator is said to be most similar to the actual Navy issued coat, the only stated difference being the Navy issued coat has a slightly thicker lining. http://www.sweatershoppe.com/sterlingmenspeacoat.html

    What do you think?

    Thanks again.
     
  13. Sonero

    Sonero Practically Family

    Messages:
    815
    Location:
    San Diego / Tijuana
    I am pretty sure mine are from the Vietnam era or 70's. Would you have expected those to have a throat latch as well ? The wool is still a beautiful Kernsey wool.
     
  14. Peacoat

    Peacoat Bartender Bartender

    Messages:
    5,523
    Location:
    South of Nashville
    From the website I see that SW is now selling the "Military Grade" peacoat without special order, so that may well be what Kaufman's has in stock.

    BTW SterlingWear is an old, and well respected company with a superb product. When it first started manufacturing USN peacoats, they used the name "Vi Mil" which was short for Viking Military. Viking was the original name of the company, and Mil stood for the military branch of the company.

    No, the throat latch was discontinued with the advent of the modern (post 1944) peacoat. With the change in the lapel and the collar, the throat latch was no longer needed.

    To get a more specific date for your peacoats, open this link:

    https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...-dating-the-united-states-navy-peacoat.72058/
     
    Sonero likes this.
  15. eclipse7309

    eclipse7309 New in Town

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    This is great info! Thanks again Peacoat.
     
  16. mrgrumpy

    mrgrumpy New in Town

    Messages:
    31
    Hi, I finally got one that fits. I am not sure if it is "authentic", the label looks official, but it is a fine coat regardless. I wonder if you could help with its provenance and perhaps date. Thank you. Pea coat.jpg Pea coat label.jpg
     
  17. Peacoat

    Peacoat Bartender Bartender

    Messages:
    5,523
    Location:
    South of Nashville
    It's a civilian model. Sterlingwear has had the Navy contract for the past 35 or so years.
     
  18. mrgrumpy

    mrgrumpy New in Town

    Messages:
    31
    Thank you. As I said above, I'm not bothered overmuch by that as the quality seems very good.
     
  19. Sonero

    Sonero Practically Family

    Messages:
    815
    Location:
    San Diego / Tijuana
    I just checked my jacket from Sterling. I have a Quarterdeck. Is that authentic ?
    I have DSCP on the tag.
     
  20. Roger_af

    Roger_af New in Town

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Bronx, NY
    My first post - so please let me know if I'm not following proper protocol here.

    The weather has gotten cold here in NYC and I finally got to pull out my Navy Peacoat that I picked up in the spring. I used Peacoat's guide here to research peacoats and identify a suitable target. (I picked up one that was too large, but grabbed this on my second attempt.) The first one I picked up was in great condition and at a great price - so I was disappointed that it didn't work. This one was slightly more (but still only $65) - and I was amazed at the condition.

    The guy I bought it from said he, "bought this from a Navy widow 11 years ago and have worn it a handful of times. I believe she told me it was issued to her husband in 1945. It’s only issues are a missing button, the liner in the armpits needs to be resewn and the locker loop is torn. No moth holes, tears or stains. All seam stitching seems to be tight as well as the button hole stitching. Very minimal visible wear."

    Picked up a few buttons on Etsy, stitches up the liner, and reinforced some of the button hole stitching, but the Kersey is in great condition. I might replace the locker loop, but it's really too heavy to hang by it anyway - so I might just keep it as original. There is a small opening at the tip of the sleeve that I'll probably toss a few stitches in just in case (pictured).

    Mostly posting to show my appreciation for the guide and get some more images up of one of these old peacoats. I realized this evening that I didn't take any pictures wearing it, but I did get to show it off at the newly opened standard and strange store here in Manhattan - and will try to update this thread with a fit picture or two next time I bust it out.

    Details:
    1943 Navy peacoat
    32 oz. Kersey wool
    Size approximate 38/40R - not stated in garment
    Measurements: Chest 19 in, Length 32 in, Shoulders 18 in, Sleeve Length 25 in
     

    Attached Files:

    BobHufford, Cornelius, J Utah and 3 others like this.

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