Terrorism

[Brad Bowers]

The Truth is Out There...er, In Here. No, it's Over There. Under where? Hell, I can't remember where I put it. Too many piles of paperwork around my office.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

The Truth is Out There...er, In Here. No, it's Over There. Under where? Hell, I can't remember where I put it. Too many piles of paperwork around my office.

BRAD! Watch out for the Chupacabra in the corner under that stack of paperwork! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Regards to all,

J

 

[MK]

I remember that episode

It wasn't one of the better ones, but I do recall a scene that I thought was very funny. Mulder was mimicking one of the characters yelling "Chupacabra! Chupacabra!". I think Duchovny was making fun of the other actor. It cracked me up.

I loved that show. One of television's best.

 

[BellyTank]

3) I wish Denmark luck. With the demographic equation of a declining birthrate of the natives, and immigration from north Africa, you will be having a very large problem with these guys in the short run; a 5 to 10 year period. Are you paying attention to the trial of the killer of Theo Van Gogh over in Holland? There's your future; a man murdered for saying women should not be mistreated.

Well, that's mostly not true- Denmark has a Conservative coalition Govt. and has re-written it's immigration policy in the last few years- so it's not actually easy for any foreigners to get into the country.
The birth statistics of such foreigners in Denmark are actually falling-

We also have a lot of people from Turkey, Iraq, Palestinians, the list goes on... we even have French and Americans here. And it's just about as hard for an American to get in here as a 'North African'. Personally, I welcome them if they need to come here for a better life- many of these folk are refugees from countries suffering wars-

AND anyway, this is only a problem for people with your mentality who seem to perceive Moslem people as a threat. The US Government's fear/propaganda/hate all foreigners machine at work I fear...
You obviously feel threatened by such 'types'. Shame on you for not knowing better. A (1)Moslem guy in Holland killed somebody... People kill people every day, it happens. He didn't do it because he was a Moslem, he did it because he was a demented individual.

If you see Moslems as a threat, then you'll always feel threatened...
You're being taught to fear them and apparently it's working very well indeed.

It's sad that a nation founded on such a wealth of cultural diversity seems to have become so profoundly xenophobic.

Good evening and good luck.

B
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[BellyTank]

Denmark, Finland, Lapland, Holland...all the same to me. And guess what? We are the big kid in the sand box. When was the last time Holland or Denmark or Holland contributed anything to the world. Oh, thats right, they have Hash Bars and allow Euthanization. So what if we didn't find WMDs, we still need to be over there kicking butt. I too know several people in the armed services fighting to free the Iraqi people, from their veiwpoint the suport is more than 50/50, it's about 95%.

Since you asked- If you wanted to find out 'When was the last time Holland or Denmark or Holland contributed anything to the world(there's actually one Holland and it's in the Netherlands).' Try reading something Bob, there's a whole World of interesting stuff out there... try a library if there still are any left- find out what the 'smaller nations contribute'- a lot actually, most, if not all European countries do.

If Denmark, Finland, Lapland, Holland...are all the same to you then why is that?
It sounds just like JP's 'I've seen Europe and the like...' - was that on TV or what?

Do Americans really think that the World consists of just America? That would account for a lot of the trouble I guess. Or is it just the 2 of you guys?

Big kid in a sandbox huh? Have fun with it, plenty of it in Iraq...

Good luck-
B
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[Matt Deckard]

I wouldn't say that the world consists of just America, though I would say that America is the buyer of everything and that many countries economies depend on a sturdy US. It strikes me odd that many countries economies (whole countries) depend on US tourists in order to stay afloat. Some cities in europe make most of their income in 4 months out of the year counting on US tourists. The US is self sufficient in many ways and that I think is the reason American's Joe Blow and Paula Plastic are arrogant and pay less attention when terrorism strikes other countires. The government doles out the money to those countries that need it, We police many and feed many that need help, though Joe Blow and Paula Plastic US citizen have little care because it doesn't directly affect them until the policeing the world fund causes there to be less teachers in the schools.

 

[BellyTank]

I wouldn't have expected that YOU did think that Mr. D.
The idea that US tourism supports European countries might be exaggerating a little though- I believe most European tourists are Europeans and a large proportion are Asians. I'm of the impression that not a great proportion of Americans travel overseas...(?) military being the exception.

The US is self sufficient in many ways, but that seems to be an ideal sold to the public by the politicians too- maybe important too is its remoteness- not only in the geographical sense. 'The Rest of the World' is just that to many, I'm sure- too far away to be bothered thinking about.
Nice to hear from you!

B
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[Biltmore Bob]

So give me examples of some of the great societal contributions of Denmark, or Holland or wherever, or New Zealand for that matter. Other than art and maybe some old science I can't think of anything. Enlighten me, my friend. How much money do the Danes send to Third World Nations to try and boost their economys? How much money do they send out in Humanitarian Aid a year? How much money did they send out in aid after the recent suname disaster?

Don't get me wrong here, I like New Zealanders or however you spell it, or if you prefer, Kiwis. I had a couple of dogs from NZ, they were good dogs. A Blue Heeler and a Border Collie.

I've been all over the world with the Marines. Mostly third world stuff, I had some buddies that went to Aus. They said it was real nice. One married a Aussi girl. She could not get off that island fast enough to suit her. I never made it to Amsterdam, but again some of my buddies did. They had a good time, but none of them relocated there when their hitch was over. I did have one buddy stay in Sicily when he got out, but he was from NY and spoke Italian and I think he had some connections to the Old Country. But for the most part most people I know, me included, never found anyplace better than the USA. Sorry. Where I live there is alot of oil business related employment. I have several friends from Scotland and the North Atlantic, I know some Finns and, believe it or not, I know several Danes. To a person, they have all applied for US citizenship. Wuzup wit dat? If it's so great everywhere else, why in the world would they want to stay in the crummy ole' states?

 

[Matt Deckard]

US Economy is 11 Trillion, The buyer of last resort.
China 1.6 Trillion, smaller gorilla than most people think though huge pop cheap goods.
California 1.5 Trillion, the 6th largest economy in the world.

You know what lets get this thread back on track. This is about terrorism and not about who contributes more to the betterment of the world.

We just had a semi failed bombing in London and they are tracking down the suspects now. Possibly the material used for this second attack was mixed the same time as the materials used for the first attack. If the explosive used had a fast decay rate that would explain why the only the detonators worked. If they catch one of these guys alive it could blow open a whole underground terrorist ring in europe. All countries have egos and issues, this thread is not about that.... it is about this / and how it affects you and your freedoms in the future.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Oh yeah, and I hate a Terrorist.

 

[BellyTank]

Bob, the 'States isn't a crummy place and I never expressed such a notion.
I think it's a fantastic, dynamo of a place-
I like most of the Americans I know- you included. But when people say ignorant sounding or dismissive things like '...Europe and the like' and 'Denmark, Lappland, whatever...' or such like, I don't know if it's intended or not- it doesn't do anybody any favours- does it? I live in Denmark but I sure don't live here for the politics...The US is extremely high on my list of places to go- I enjoy living in different countries and experiencing other cultures- so it sounds crazy to me when someone says such things- see my angle?
New Zealand is just about falling off the edge of the Earth, what do you expect?
You like NZ dogs huh?
I new a Texan, he was gay...

America good- Politicians extremely bad- I repeat; America GOOD.
The country and the people are good- just the corporate drivern politics that sucks wad. Just about the same everywhere else too- it's just a scale thing...

Re: European contributions to the World- find out for yourself if there are any libraries remaining- or hey, the Internet! I've been through this before- then you won't have to argue with me... America has an enormous economy to draw upon in aid- Denmark has a population of hmmm.. only 5.3 million- you'd expect the financial help to be very small in comparison. But Denmark contributes to many international aid agencies and organisations and of course has many uniquely Danish ones. Denmark contributes a lot.
Art and Science were quite important last time I looked.
Don't undermine America's other contributions, it's not all just $$$.

So you're more travelled than I'd guessed.
I've never found any place better than home- I find home everywhere I go.
28 years on the edge of the Earth was enough for me, so was 8 in England.
I think I would get a little bored staying put for too long but that may change-

I thought Blue Healers were Australian and Border Collies were from the UK(?)

Anyway-

I hate Terrorists too- they're just murderers and somehow, indirectly, cause people to go to war against Iraq and hate Moslems... more murder... and so it goes...

Nite Jim Bob-

B
T

 

[Brad Bowers]

Regarding contributions to the world, I'd like to point out that 1000 years ago, the Islamic world was the most enlightened civilization in the west, and fostered math, science, medicine, and the arts. They "kept alive" these fields for western civilization between the time of the Roman Empire and the Renaissance.

My point is this: practically every society has made positive contributions to the world, historically-speaking, even Islam.

What's happened since then? As I'm an historian of the American West and not an historian of Islamic culture, I'm not 100% positive on the reason why, but I think it's been the rise of theocratic regimes in Islam that has regressed their society and kept it from modernizing.

To come back around to the topic, if we're to combat terrorism, we can do one of two things: 1) Kill all of them, which isn't feasible or practical, no matter how bloodthirsty I sound at times, or 2) get them to stop their terroristic activities.

The second choice involves changing their mindset, and most of that will have to come from their society, not ours. I think democratic governments can provide a place for freer thinking, but the solution is going to have come from within the Islamic world. This will not happen overnight, and may not even happen in our lifetimes.

In the meantime, our countries need to take whatever precautions we can to protect our citizens from this threat, whether that means increasing security on our transit systems, or taking the fight to the enemy.

Lecture's over. You're dismissed.

Brad

 

[BellyTank]

What you say about Islamic culture and all cultures is all true and a nice observation.

What's happenned in Islamic culture is the same as what's happened in the 'Industrialised World' and is what I'm always getting at: power hungry politicians perverting and extorting their own countries and cultures for gross personal gain. The wisdom of the Quran has been twisted and perverted to create personal wealth, control, repress and manipulate the masses.
The West's politicians pervert and subvert for the same reasons and greedy, selfish ends.

For a start, we need to stop talking about 'them' unless we just mean Terrorists- of any order.
Kill all of them? find 'em first...

Changing the mindset of apparent Islamic fundamentalist 'Westerner' haters will definitely not be achieved by invading and occupying a Middle East nation.

To take the fight to the enemy- again, you need to know your enemy and be able to find them. The nature of Terrorists is that they are not known...

Something needs to be done but if 'these few' dangerous types don't want to 'deal' then there's no conquering them. If they can't/won't be appeased it will not cease- It's not like the IRA, they had terms, a political agenda that could have been dealt with. It seems the current strain are Terrorists in the truest sense of the word, they have no reason, just an eternal enemy- even 'the good guys' have their eternal enemy- we fight and someone above us gets rich. They fight and we still get rich but people die on both sides.
Look at the statistics- how many of 'us' and how many of 'them'...

The worst of it is that it's a business- the tax payer buys the weapons, pays the soldiers' wages and the Politicians/War Entrepeneurs reap the profits from the munitions, hardware and even 'service' corporations- (I can remember when soldiers peeled their own potatoes and cleaned their own latrines- now it's a service industry...)we all get screwed and 'they' get richer. That's the sickest, most perverted part of this whole mess... we're 'fighting Terrorists' and the money just keeps on rolling-
Hmmm... maybe modern wars are engineered to make money for the guys who sell the guns and keep the ones paying for the war (us) scared and patriotic... surely not... hmmm...

I hate Terrorists, of all kinds-

B
T

 

[Biltmore Bob]

BT, I like you too...

but you know what they say about Texas...something 'bout steers and queers.

Yeah, I'm travelled, but I'm not worldly by any means. NZ, as you know is a very sheep rich environment, as well as Australia is. Some of the best dogs in the world are from that part of the world. Border Colies were developed in the border area between Scotland and England, but some came to the land of Oz and found work.

 

[BellyTank]

Don't forget Beers, that was the missing one.
:cheers1:
B
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[BellyTank]

Denmark, Finland, Lapland, Holland...all the same to me. And guess what? We are the big kid in the sand box. When was the last time Holland or Denmark or Holland contributed anything to the world.

...So give me examples of some of the great societal contributions of Denmark, or Holland or wherever, or New Zealand for that matter.

Bob- to answer this/these questions:
I just found out purely by accident- Denmark is actually the greatest provider (per national wealth) of funds to 3rd World Countries, giving away around 0.7% of its GDP. This is a larger proportion than any other nation gives. Denmark also provides massive manpower in 3rd World aid.
It has been proposed to bring the rest of the Industrialised World up to the standard of Denmark's 0.7%.

That was just letting you know, since you posed the question- I'm not a big defender of Denmark, it's just the place I live. On the other hand, Denmark has revised its immigration policy over the last few years and it is now much more difficult for foreigners to settle here- be they Middle Eastern, Nth African, American or British, or anything... although, regrettably, by the wording and structure of the policy, it is aimed to keep Islamic races out.

B
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[Biltmore Bob]

Great...

But ya otta admit one does not think of Denmark as being, well, ah...I guess I just don't think of Denmark much.

 

[BellyTank]

Well- you're an American-
Consider yourself better informed now-

Maybe you should think about it for next time

Remember, ignorance, although bliss, is no license for abuse :cheers1:

B
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[Biltmore Bob]

Darling...

You know that I would never abuse you. It's all in fun...

 

[BellyTank]

OK, sorry- belittling other countries without caring to know better, how 'bout that then? :hamburger

B
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