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Vintage suit patterns

Sin Khan

Familiar Face
Messages
81
Location
Panama City, Florida
I ordered two books from amazon about tailoring a suit coat and jacket. I have looked for a long time for suit patterns from the major pattern sales web sites, almost none of them have mens pattern suits and coats. Then after reading an advice column from a sewing page that said basically (not word for word) that sewing garments at home is not profitable unless one is sewing high end or difficult products.

That statement to me explains why it is difficult to find mens pattern coats and suits. It is because these are profitable items to sell. Most of the patterns that I see even for women?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s clothing are for simple cloths that one can easily purchase for a minimal amount of money in a department store.

Remember that clothing is manufactured mainly in cheap sweat shops in china and other Asian rim countries that have poverty level working wages. But when distributors and wholesalers get the product, it is marked up about 50 percent from that producer. Also, the department store will mark up the item another 50 percent. I good friend of mine used to be a Target executive over softlines. He observed directly that the clothing department had one of the highest profit margins in the entire store.

Clothing is also a high theft item and has a large overstock requirement for sizing purposes. For this reason, clothing in a retail outlet has always had a high built in profit margin. It is also considered a perishable good in that it is seasonal and period based. So at the end of any season or drastic change in fashion, many items will not sell and must be marked down or sold in batch lots to the discount outlets.

Many of the most expensive items in a department store today are regular cloths with high priced name tags on them in order to brand them. A pair of jeans with the Tommy Hilfiger brand can cost over 80 dollars. These jeans are no better than any other comparable brand and can easy be made by the home tailor for less than 20 dollars in materials and about 2 hours work. If even the home tailor bought a larger quantify of material and so called mass produced them him or herself the cost would drop even less.

Today the home tailor can purchase computerized sewing machines and pattern software that only need basic measurements to spit out an almost tailor fit pattern in practically any style of garment or clothing required. Many of them produce a standard base item that is tailored then further additions can be added to make the item unique and differentiated in the market.

It seems to me that the reason one cannot find patterns for high end product like suits and jackets is for these reasons:

1. It is the biggest profit maker for the major producers.
2. Today?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s home tailor can more easily produce these high end products at home than at anytime previously.
3. The world wide web?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s function as a world wide wholesaler to other global small businesses gives the small business operator a more competitive cost per unit figure than previously possible.
4. Due to the need for high profit on these items in the marketplace, the majors cannot afford to let home tailors competitively steal market share in high end product.

the big dogs don't want the average person with a home computerized sewing machine to be able to compete with them on higher end merchandise.
 

scotrace

Head Bartender
Staff member
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14,382
Location
Small Town Ohio, USA
Add one

5. Tiny demand for such patterns.
6. Extremely specialized skills required that only a teeny fraction of the population can put into play (see #5).

If I can build a high-end computer, television, etc., at home from parts (thereby costing the Big Boys market share).
If a woman can buy a pattern and materials to make a wedding gown that would cost $10,000 at a salon (thereby costing the Big Boys market share).
If I can buy plans and materials to create a mahogany dining table (thereby costing the Big Boys market share)...

Then there is no reason at all why a men's suit pattern and the materials to make it should not be available. Unless #5 and #6 come into play.

Discuss. :)
 

Cousin Hepcat

Practically Family
Messages
777
Location
NC
replying to two posts:

First, in response to Wild Root's suggestion of a great idea for a tasteful photo, that I can't wait to try out, but that I'd really want to have a vintage-style suit for to do it right:

click here for Root's post
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=54688&postcount=5

and in response to this this Highly Disappointing thread:

Sin Khan said:
I ordered two books from amazon about tailoring a suit coat and jacket. I have looked for a long time for suit patterns from the major pattern sales web sites, almost none of them have mens pattern suits and coats. Then after reading an advice column from a sewing page that said basically (not word for word) that sewing garments at home is not profitable unless one is sewing high end or difficult products.
That statement to me explains why it is difficult to find mens pattern coats and suits.

Man, I thought this was going to be simple as just "getting one made". this is really disappointing! Would be hard to find the time to go rooting around for a suit like back in the day at the flea markets/junk shops for records.

Just went web surfing, it's hard to believe as many women's patterns as there are out there that you don't see equal number of men's suits. My first impulse on hearing mens suit patterns can't be found would be to say Bull, but I think someone said theyve been looking for Six Years & havent seen any... man...

Sin Kahn, & everyone, thanks for your posts to this thread, most informative, if not encouraging.

Asking the Obvious: Has anyone here actually gone about tearing apart a cool vintage suit and made pattern(s)? It's got to have been done... no use in reinventing the wheel...

or has any good soul got a cache of 30s-40s mens non-zoot suit patterns they could lay out pattern/pieces & post snapshots for reproduction?

may sound like a big hassle, but sure seems easier to enlarge a JPG to print multi-page & paste together & present to an experienced tailor/seamstress for their advice.

dang, guess theres no easy solution... :rage:
 

Lauren

Distinguished Service Award
Messages
5,060
Location
Sunny California
There's a lot more to clothing construction than just having a pattern and material. It's hard enough these days to run across women who really know how to sew.
 
Someone at least still knows how to sew. The latest trend in backwoods Indiana appears to be the sewing of jeans to the bottom hem of underwear for that extra low hanging pants crotch look. I guess their mothers are sewing them for them like that. I don't know how they hold the whole contraption up - maybe they have suspenders attached to the underwear? :)

Maybe we can find a pattern to show us how to achieve the look ...

bk
 

Lauren

Distinguished Service Award
Messages
5,060
Location
Sunny California
Ah ha! I remembered a while back when I was at Costume College a woman who owns the corsetry supplier named Farthingales came with a MASSIVE tailoring book. I didn't look too closely, but she told me the author researched a long time for it. It had fashion plates throughout history and definately would be a worthwhile resource to own. It's near the top of my wish list, for sure!

Here's the link to the page. Remember it's in Canadian $.
 

Cousin Hepcat

Practically Family
Messages
777
Location
NC
Baron Kurtz said:
I got the cabrera book out from my local library. I agree pretty much with the last two posts. If you want to make a suit that fits, this book is the place to start. But what i really got out of the book was that even doing that is going to be one hell of a job for the untrained.

And then to try to alter patterns without a master tailor to help? Hopefully someone will be able to do it, but wow, that will be verrry difficult.

HA! thats *GREAT*! :p Sounds like the trends where I grew up! (Baron Kutz, just gotta say, thats a great avatar with The Prez...)

Geez, first patterns cant be found, now yall are saying even if one finds patterns its hard to find someone who knows how to sew them anymore... hey when a coworker pointed me to the Fedora Lounge the other week, I was all fired up about getting tips on having a cool vintage suit made.

Can anyone point me to any possible earlier lounge discussions about the question of "What suit manufacturers make currently readily available (i.e. off the shelf / internet order) vintage-style 30s-40s suits or something close"? And, Are there any other options besides scrounging for a cool clean reasonably priced (as suits go) original or repro suit?

(Just watched "Swing Time" with Astaire & Rodgers in the last week, had that whole scene with the running joke of putting the cuffs on the tux pant legs, and the little tailor guy pulling out one huge binder after another of suit patterns, had an entire Wall stacked up with pattern books. You'd think - ...)
 
I just realised that this thread must sound a little negative. I'm sure that a tailor with the old patterns should be able to do something good. I'd try to find a tailor shop run by one little old man rather than a full scale industrial-type production line tailor ...

You might want to try the thread below

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4766

Indy Magnolis suits look pretty vintage-correct to me, and the comments are good on the thread.

The avatar is my favourite Prez image. Alone in Paris, horn in a paper bag, probably :beer:
 
Baron Kurtz said:
They do make one wretch, yes ... I dread going to the bus stop (where they tend to congregate.). I can't imagine what they make of my high waisted suit trousers. The funny thing is most of them are around my age. Oh, well, life goes on ...

Well they are more interested in looking like Stringbean did forty years ago than looking like a regular person. Check it out:
Stringbean.jpg

Looks like Stringbean had a solution to his pants falling down though. You don't see any underwear showing either. :p

Regards to all,

J
 

Sin Khan

Familiar Face
Messages
81
Location
Panama City, Florida
I agree baron, both tailoring books that i have state that the traditional methods remain unchanged since over one hundred years ago. If this statement has any validity then any tailor owth his weight should be able to reproduce a vintage suit. All that may be required is getting ones hands on a few vintage suits or even pictures of vintage suits and then whipping up a suit. The drape may be off as the creators of many fils point out though. Starting fabric is a key component of any clothing design.

The dvd from the movie "The Road to Perdition" states that the clothing personel had to have the cloth for the suits and coats specially made because the current standard cloth is too light for the period. Also the color scheme of the movie dictated that all outfits had a certain tone to them. Color washing techniques can provide this but since they had to have the cloth made to order anyway, why not help save a little post production cost on specific color washing.
 
Hmmm, never heard of stringbean before. Excellent pic.

Reminds me a bit of Jimmy Stewart but with a slightly stretched face ...

Sin Khan, yeah. The thing is being careful about is getting a tailor who is indeed worth his weight. There seem to be quite a number of charlatans around. And the cloth - i think it was covered in another thread - with the advent of modern air conditioning etc, the demand for heavy fabrics dropped. If anyone's interested in getting hold of some vintage fabric in what looks to be an excellent herringbone weave (enough to make a suit or even two!):

http://http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8347947870&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

bk
 
Baron Kurtz said:
Hmmm, never heard of stringbean before. Excellent pic.

Reminds me a bit of Jimmy Stewart but with a slightly stretched face ...

He was super talented and a guy that everyone liked. Here is the text that went with the photo. I am sure you have seen him on HeeHaw if you are old enough. ;)

"November 10, 1973 ?¢‚Ǩ‚Äú Popular Opry member David ?¢‚Ǩ?ìStringbean?¢‚Ǩ? Akeman appears on the Opry for the final time. When Stringbean returns home from the Opry that night, he and his wife, Estelle, are ambushed and murdered by two men who hoped to rob the couple of money Stringbean reputedly had hidden in his home. Twenty-three years later, some $20,000 would be found, rotted and worthless, in the walls of the house."

Idiot kids of today who wear their pants hanging down are not emulating their rapper heros. Stringbean came first. Get a banjo kids! ;) :p

Regards to all,

J
 

Cousin Hepcat

Practically Family
Messages
777
Location
NC
Baron Kurtz said:
You might want to try the thread below

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4766

Indy Magnolis suits look pretty vintage-correct to me, and the comments are good on the thread.

THANKS, went and read that whole thread, that's exactly the kind of info was hoping for in the first place. (Whew) So, it's all good

Baron Kurtz said:
The avatar is my favourite Prez image. Alone in Paris, horn in a paper bag, probably :beer:

Awww, maaaaaan! You sure know how to make a Prez fan feel guilty about laughing out loud!

Anyway thanks all for freely sharing so much great info on this board; will leave the room now so folks can resume their Deliverance discussion
 

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