what's that old line about skeletons..?

[mike]

Maybe this is suits 101, if so please bear with me...
When ordering a bespoke suit, is it possible (& suggested) to ask for skeleton lining and floating canvas? Or do you need to go with one or the other as skeleton lining means you've only really got one level of fabric between you and the elements of this cruel, cruel world?! :eusa_doh:

Also as a side note, what is the term for this style of lapel edge?

thanks ahead of time!

 

[Matt Deckard]

Just to clarify for some.

In the pic,

Quarter inch in it looks.

Machine stitch it's called.

Skeleton linin refers to the lining alone. Lining being what sits between you and the material that is the exterior of the suit.

If the suit has a skeleton lining, the lining is minimal with the seams taped... skeletal.

In regards to fusing or floating. Floating means the canvas is stitched between the material between your chest and the outer world. Fused measn that it is glued. Dry cleaning tends to do bad things to glued things from bubbling... well causing the lapels to curl.

Techniques are better nowadays so even fused interiors are better than the work of some of the worst tailors with a needle.

As for Skeleton lining? it's up to you.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That's called topstitching.

I would imagine any besoke service would be using stitched canvas interfacing. Online tailors - this is not bespoke - will usually use fused canvas.

I'm on the fence about lining. I have no preference for fully lined or partially lined. If a partial lining is employed the seam tape certainly looks neater than without.

bk

 

[Alan Eardley]

Top stitch

And really good tailors often use a hand top stitch.

Once regarded as one of the marks of good clothing.

Alan

 

[Matt Deckard]

It is nice when it's on the outer edge and a quarter inch in.

I've always prefered the machine look to that of an unsteady hand.

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

I understood the question was not about what canvas lining is but if partially lined jackets have any canvas lining at all. If not, there's no need to choose between floating and fused.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Even a skeleton lined men's jacket will normally have canvas interfacing in the very front. See Matt's pic. In behind that minimal satin lining will be canvas interfacing. A summer weight american jacket will usually have less lining than that . . . sometimes just a thin strip.

I don't often see totally unstructured - that is, no canvas - men's jackets.

bk

 

[mike]

That's called topstitching.

I would imagine any besoke service would be using stitched canvas interfacing. Online tailors - this is not bespoke - will usually use fused canvas.

I'm on the fence about lining. I have no preference for fully lined or partially lined. If a partial lining is employed the seam tape certainly looks neater than without.

bk

thanks for the replies guys! So what would be the difference between bespoke & made to order (as in, an online service from mr. magnoli)?

So the stitched canvas interfacing has no relationship to if you have a suit barely if at all, partially or fully lined? If ordering a tweed suit, would you think having it fully lined would be more comfortable due to it possibly being itchy or would it be better skeleton lined since you'd have 1 to 3 layers of clothing between you and the jacket anyways and as the tweed could be a heavier material and therefore making it more uncomfortable for those california afternoons if fully lined...? sorry for all the questions, I love this stuff but am in greatly in need of some educated advice

 

[mike]

In regards to fusing or floating. Floating means the canvas is stitched between the material between your chest and the outer world. Fused measn that it is glued. Dry cleaning tends to do bad things to glued things from bubbling... well causing the lapels to curl.

Techniques are better nowadays so even fused interiors are better than the work of some of the worst tailors with a needle.

As for Skeleton lining? it's up to you.

Hello Matt, thank you also for the reply.
Huh, so you're suggesting fused being not that bad of an option?
Is Skeleton lining noticeably different in weight or warmth? I've only ever had suits that have been lined.

 

[Micawber]

Bespoke involves being carefully measured and those measurements which take into account all the small details of your particular body shape which then go to make up a set of unique patterns from which the garment is cut, constructed and finely tuned through fittings.

Made to measure generally will involve your measurements being transferred to a set of standard patterns which are then tweaked to match your general shape.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

^^ wot 'e sed.

bk

 

[mike]

ah-chaa and that is generally oodles more money I'm guessing..?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

usually. But it can be much, much less than you'll pay for a badly made, badly fitting, RTW suit of poor refined petroleum materials from the latest designer of the moment.

bk

 

[mike]

usually. But it can be much, much less than you'll pay for a badly made, badly fitting, RTW suit of poor refined petroleum materials from the latest designer of the moment.

bk

well I was only referring to something through Indy or where Matt got his suit recently made.

 

[Mike in Seattle]

Isn't bespoke also more that the person doing the measuring is also the one making the suit, sort of like you're using the same craftsman on the piece, start to finish? And/or that made-to-order doesn't necessarily mean one person's working on it - it could be an assembly-line type of piece made based on the measurements? One person may cut the fabric, one may do the lining, another the sleeves, another the lapels and so forth?

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Isn't bespoke also more that the person doing the measuring is also the one making the suit, sort of like you're using the same craftsman on the piece, start to finish? And/or that made-to-order doesn't necessarily mean one person's working on it - it could be an assembly-line type of piece made based on the measurements? One person may cut the fabric, one may do the lining, another the sleeves, another the lapels and so forth?

No, there's a lot of division of labour, I think. There are cutters, tailors/sewers, buttonhole seamstresses, trimmers, finishers/kippers. Then you have focussed jobs like coatmakers, trousermakers, waistcoat makers. I think a tailor's business would have to be rather big to employ specialists who only do frockcoats and the like. Then you have the ranks like head cutter, senior cuttor, undercutter, and vocational degrees like apprentice and master tailor.

That doesn't mean that smaller out-of-Savile-Row tailors don't do it all by themselves, or with only one other person such as their spouse.