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Why do thick leathers keep getting recommended?

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17,266
Location
Chicago
That's actually not totally true. In fact, id say its mostly incorrect. Most or the people who favor super thick leather in these parts are not part of that scene at all. Most of the cxl Aero love came from this forum with denim nerds being more into Japanese and vegetable tanned leathers. You can blame raw denim. For that, but definitely not for the love of thick leather on this forum.

I've been wearing leather jackets and raw denim since 2013 and the vast majority of denim guys back then and still now prefer more medium weight, veg tan stuff that tea cores too fast.

Your vitriol against the amekaji scene is pretty grating at this point and often misguided. There are certainly issues with it and I'll be the first to point them out, but your answer to seemingly every question is "lol raw denim and standard and strange are the problem all those people suck." It's a bit reductive. I know what you say isn't that simple, but it comes off that way. Of course we both agree on many of the issues within that scene, but I feel that the way you come across about it as a whole is too negative and does a disservice to the positive aspects of the scene. Maybe you're just more jaded about it than me. I've held this in for a while because I was trying to be nice, but this is just so inaccurate.

I personally hate overly thick leather. A lot of it looks and feels pretty mediocre. Of course, there's also excellent thicker leather, but like any leather, it's on a case by case basis.
I don’t think what was said is inaccurate. I can say from my own experience that the quest for the heaviest, thickest leather was also done in tandem with my quest for denim with the same characteristics. I probably went through 30 CXL jackets and an equal if not greater number of 21oz and greater jackets and jeans. You couldn’t pay me to wear either one anymore or ever again.

As far as the Japanese amekaji “scene” with leather and denim goes….to me it is the absolute height of poser. What positives are there? It’s utterly soulless catalog gear. I believe it’s a plague fueled by Instagram users looking for a reassuring like, and when I look at the accounts I see a bunch of fancy boys with soft hands playing dress up and flashing big bucks gear (more likes please!) that makes them resemble sausage cased walking twat boxes.

*Insert required “just my opinion” apology here.

Kudos to you for at least scrubbing the leather jacket part of that trash can out of your wardrobe. Stuff wasn’t doing you any favors, but it rarely does for anyone frankly.
It seems the longer I stay in this hobby, the more I think Stu is actually right.
 

cbez

One Too Many
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1,248
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CA
Michael-Jackson-Popcorn-GIF-Meme-Eating-Popcorn-Featured-StudioBinder.jpg
 

Rgcards

A-List Customer
Messages
450
As far as the Japanese amekaji “scene” with leather and denim goes….to me it is the absolute height of poser. What positives are there? It’s utterly soulless catalog gear. I believe it’s a plague fueled by Instagram users looking for a reassuring like, and when I look at the accounts I see a bunch of fancy boys with soft hands playing dress up and flashing big bucks gear (more likes please!) that makes them resemble sausage cased walking twat boxes.
Wow. I believe you created a new metaphor.
 

dudewuttheheck

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,341
I wasn't talking about CXL specifically except at the very end. I was just talking about the emphasis on tea core, "natty veg tan", break-in, the need to start stiff, etc-- things that, by the way, I've by no means been immune to. In fact your last point is really the best illustration of my point--fast fading jackets are presumably popular for the same reason fast fading denim is.



Okay. I'm talking about a scene I've been in myself since the 2000s, and I think it's a pretty wide spectrum with all kinds of people in it. I'm honestly not sure what has you upset about this given that my impression is that you are bothered by the same parts of that culture that I am. (And yeah, I think Standard & Strange epitomizes most of what's wrong with it. I don't hide that I feel that way, and it's not like it matters considering I have friends who basically spend every paycheck there.)

I obviously feel there's a positive aspect to the subculture and clothing considering I still participate in it and wear it, but I think it's useful for there to be a counterweight because most of the internet when people search this stuff is either: stuff from much earlier in people's stages in the scene, which we've since moved away from (I try not to think about my decades of forum posts...) or outright advertorial content from stores.

I think I am indeed more jaded about it now but I didn't start out that way, nor am I not part of those trends myself.
Totally fair. I may have been too harsh in my comments. I wasn't trying to be and if so, I apologize. We are overall on the same page for the most part I think.

We may just have to agree to disagree on the level of negativity which is fine. And again we do agree on the whole tea core garbage, but to me, tour post read as though you were saying that raw denim was to blame for the love of thicker leather jackets, which I disagree with. I think the reason why heavy leather is overrated in this leather jacket hobby has nothing to do with raw denim.
 

dudewuttheheck

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,341
I don’t think what was said is inaccurate. I can say from my own experience that the quest for the heaviest, thickest leather was also done in tandem with my quest for denim with the same characteristics. I probably went through 30 CXL jackets and an equal if not greater number of 21oz and greater jackets and jeans. You couldn’t pay me to wear either one anymore or ever again.

As far as the Japanese amekaji “scene” with leather and denim goes….to me it is the absolute height of poser. What positives are there? It’s utterly soulless catalog gear. I believe it’s a plague fueled by Instagram users looking for a reassuring like, and when I look at the accounts I see a bunch of fancy boys with soft hands playing dress up and flashing big bucks gear (more likes please!) that makes them resemble sausage cased walking twat boxes.

*Insert required “just my opinion” apology here.

Kudos to you for at least scrubbing the leather jacket part of that trash can out of your wardrobe. Stuff wasn’t doing you any favors, but it rarely does for anyone frankly.
It seems the longer I stay in this hobby, the more I think Stu is actually right.
I utterly disagree, but there's zero point in discussing that here publicly. It won't get us anywhere. I didn't realize your views were that judgemental and reductive.
 

El Marro

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3,523
Location
California
I actually remember when you joined. I had been a member then for 10 years and had seen a lot of people come and go. I'm glad you have stayed with us as you have been a real asset to the Lounge.
Thank you @Peacoat! My presence here has waxed and waned as other hobbies grab my attention but I always find myself back at the lounge sooner or later.
 

bigmanbigtruck

One of the Regulars
Messages
202
As far as the Japanese amekaji “scene” with leather and denim goes….to me it is the absolute height of poser. What positives are there? It’s utterly soulless catalog gear. I believe it’s a plague fueled by Instagram users looking for a reassuring like, and when I look at the accounts I see a bunch of fancy boys with soft hands playing dress up and flashing big bucks gear (more likes please!) that makes them resemble sausage cased walking twat boxes.
Stuart after reading this
1716348431873.png
 

Aloysius

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3,704
Totally fair. I may have been too harsh in my comments. I wasn't trying to be and if so, I apologize. We are overall on the same page for the most part I think.

We may just have to agree to disagree on the level of negativity which is fine. And again we do agree on the whole tea core garbage, but to me, tour post read as though you were saying that raw denim was to blame for the love of thicker leather jackets, which I disagree with. I think the reason why heavy leather is overrated in this leather jacket hobby has nothing to do with raw denim.

No harm done. I was also replying to something slightly different from the original topic question, by thinking of stiff veg-tan leathers (including midweight) in general, not necessarily the thickest, so that probably made my post less clear than it could have been. For most of my friends deep in that world getting a "teacore Shinki" or "natty veg tan" jacket is seen as the natural complement to and next step after wearing and fading heavy raws.
 

dudewuttheheck

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,341
No harm done. I was also replying to something slightly different from the original topic question, by thinking of stiff veg-tan leathers (including midweight) in general, not necessarily the thickest, so that probably made my post less clear than it could have been. For most of my friends deep in that world getting a "teacore Shinki" or "natty veg tan" jacket is seen as the natural complement to and next step after wearing and fading heavy raws.
Ah ok that makes a lot more sense. In that case I'm fully on board with you. I do like some Shinki, but when companies go overboard with the teacore, it ruins it IMO. Plus I like a soft leather at times as well. Deerskin is absolutely lovely.
 

Aloysius

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3,704
Ah ok that makes a lot more sense. In that case I'm fully on board with you. I do like some Shinki, but when companies go overboard with the teacore, it ruins it IMO. Plus I like a soft leather at times as well. Deerskin is absolutely lovely.

I felt like stiff leathers were more in the spirit of the question than thick because there are some thick buffalo, goat, cow, etc leathers that are blanket-soft.
 

dudewuttheheck

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,341
I felt like stiff leathers were more in the spirit of the question than thick because there are some thick buffalo, goat, cow, etc leathers that are blanket-soft.
Yup that's very true. My deerskin jackets were actually quite thick, definitely thicker than any HH jacket I have personally owned, but soft as can be. A very important distinction.

Stiff leathers do have their place and I love some nice tunneling, but it's not the end all be all.
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
24,878
Location
London, UK
I cut my leather teeth on eighties bike jackets, so I have a default appreciation for heavier leathers. TBh, though, having owned three or four CXL FQHH jackets, I never had the experience some complain of of them being uncomfortable, too heavy, or stiff. A month of regular wear tops and mine were all grand. I've only ever moved a cxl jacket on because I changed size, or got the size wrong in the first place, in retrospect. A little break in and they were as soft as anything else I own. These days, I do like a range of hides, Aero's goat being quite a favourite. Wouldn't say I prefer it over CXL, more that it works better for certain styles and applications.
 

zebedee

One Too Many
Messages
1,854
Location
Shanghai
My first Aero is a Highwayman in brown fqhh. It was initially heavy and a bit difficult to move in, but became comfortable quite quickly. It's a beautiful thing now (it's 14 or so years old). Aero's mid weight fqhh is only somewhat lighter. The hide I find a challenge is steer hide (the tan cafe racer is steer hide)- it's very stiff, and might not be suited to the CR I have in it. Time will tell. The fqhh is like armour, initially, but I get a lot of compliments on it due to its patina.

For me, Vicenza has the ideal drape/weight overall (the Mariner), and goat is the most comfortable (50s HB). Each hide has its positives and negatives.

None of the hides below is as old as the Highwayman, but I doubt they'll be as eye-catching when they are.

5AAFE466-8F05-4CCD-A126-31FAE8664707.jpeg 5E09FD5B-D173-4F29-B4F9-92106B8277BA.jpeg E317EF0E-CB16-4DC0-97D2-37161987ADC4.jpeg 11E7B63B-C9D8-4F48-80F3-311777DF2FF7.jpeg 7C345C7D-AAE8-41CE-A240-2A12C1CE357B.jpeg 10B0BD79-8057-4EC8-BCE5-82349D805117.jpeg
 

Bennarion

One Too Many
Messages
1,761
I started my journey with a thick horse leather jacket. There were a lot of jackets and I eventually decided that it was not practical for me. But I don't regret trying it. You need to go this way to understand what is right for you. In the end, I settled on Shinki.
 

r0c1nant3

New in Town
Messages
25
I cut my leather teeth on eighties bike jackets, so I have a default appreciation for heavier leathers. TBh, though, having owned three or four CXL FQHH jackets, I never had the experience some complain of of them being uncomfortable, too heavy, or stiff. A month of regular wear tops and mine were all grand. I've only ever moved a cxl jacket on because I changed size, or got the size wrong in the first place, in retrospect. A little break in and they were as soft as anything else I own. These days, I do like a range of hides, Aero's goat being quite a favourite. Wouldn't say I prefer it over CXL, more that it works better for certain styles and applications.

I came here to say just this. A lifetime in motorcycle leathers, there is something really magical/comforting about a robust/durable CXL HH coat.

I've had plush lambskin and the like, they look fantastic early on, but they do wear out and can start to look nappy over time. In contrast, the stiff, thick leather is appealing. The more you wear them, the better they get. I have two CXL HH's but I greatly prefer the thicker/stiffer one. It's basically the only coat I wear unless it's bone-cracking cold.

In a world where everything is junk now and even refrigerators are lucky to last two years, the idea of a BIFL, heirloom garment is awesome! CXL HH is exactly that.
 

Canuck Panda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,290
Thicker leather doesn't have to be stiff.

CXL doesn't have to be stiff. https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/cxl-fqhh-medium-vs-heavy-weight-1-1mm-vs-1-4mm.109263/

I love CXL but I also understand the issues associated with some of the batches. My observation is that if the CXL jacket doesn't break in in the first two weeks of wear, its not gonna break in in the next two years either. But many of my CXL jackets do break in within the first two weeks of wear. I've also moved on a lot of CXL jackets that didn't. It's a lottery draw but the odds is not one sided either.

My advise for CXL jackets is to buy them used. Chances are you'll end up with the stiff monster people unloaded. But it will come at a deep discount, and every leather breaks, it's just a matter of time.
 

Aloysius

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Messages
3,704
I started my journey with a thick horse leather jacket. There were a lot of jackets and I eventually decided that it was not practical for me. But I don't regret trying it. You need to go this way to understand what is right for you. In the end, I settled on Shinki.

I am a bit confused by this particular point, not because Shinki is a bad leather but because by no means would I call it anything but a stiff, fairly thick horsehide.

Anyway if anyone is looking for a laugh, there’s a Reddit workwear guy whose boots are literally injuring him and he’s angry at everyone saying he bought the wrong size. It reads almost identically as those guys in 2007 buying APC jeans 5 sizes too small because “it’ll stretch”.
 

bigmanbigtruck

One of the Regulars
Messages
202
As far as the Japanese amekaji “scene” with leather and denim goes….to me it is the absolute height of poser. What positives are there? It’s utterly soulless catalog gear. I believe it’s a plague fueled by Instagram users looking for a reassuring like, and when I look at the accounts I see a bunch of fancy boys with soft hands playing dress up and flashing big bucks gear (more likes please!) that makes them resemble sausage cased walking twat boxes.

Given my newfound interest in leather jackets, have been seeing amekaji stuff pop up on my feed and do get where you're coming from. I have to admit there are some things that draw me to it, especially the boots as of late.

But when I see most of the guys that represent the scene, it all just seems so fake and soulless - which is the majority of IG anyway, so I suppose it's appropriate. All the "tough-guy" choreographed walking along with strange poses. It's hard to give off the rugged vibe when it looks like you're trying to simulate walking down a fashion runway. Reminds me of "influencers" I see all the time in NYC that setup a tripod and record themselves doing this garbage over and over till they get the 1 take that works - strikes me as obsessive and neurotic behavior.

Don't mean to single out the guy below (he's probably on this forum and friends with some of you guys), but unfortunately for him he popped up on my feed lol. The whole posing thing just looks tryhard to me. All it does is remind me of my grandad's old-man pose; hands behind the back and bow-legged stance. Then he tenses up his arms as hard as he can - I was expecting the description to have affiliate links to supplements. Ironically, the whole exercise ends up looking feminine to me as I picture him standing in his backyard in front of his tripod recording himself for minutes as he strikes one pose after the other.

IMG_2387.jpeg


Anyway people gotta make a living somehow, although the guy I pointed out is a dentist so he won't have to worry about that. That’s just my take on amekaji - there’s some interesting stuff in there, but the entirety of it is just not for me. If people enjoying styling themselves around that genre; c'est la vie, something for everyone and so on…

I will say though that @dudewuttheheck is a super-informative guy to learn from and watching his stuff at least gave me some idea of what's considered high-end and what to look for.
 
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