Humour about tragedy.

panamag8or · Jun 28, 2009

Lily Powers said:
Not the same as "gallows humor" that some personnel in certain work environs use among themselves to keep themselves sane.

This happens a lot in our newsroom. Same goes for law enforcement and medical professionals. Groups that tend to see a lot of sadness and death end up making light of the situation to keep from being overwhelmed by it all.

LizzieMaine · Jun 28, 2009

Viola said:
Hogan's Heroes was written and acted in mostly by Jews of the Golden Era who didn't want the Nazis portrayed as anything worthy of respect. It isn't exactly gallows humor but it is essentially trying to remove all those sleek militaristic Hugo Bass-approved images of black-and-silver Teutonic efficiency and replace it with a bunch of stupid men who should be pitied and ridiculed as drooling morons.

Well said. For example, Werner Klemperer, who played Col. Klink, and whose family was run out of Germany by the Nazis, agreed to play the role only on the condition that his character be portrayed as foolish and ineffectual at all times.

This fits in with the flavor of a lot of actual wartime humor in radio, films, and cartoons -- the tone was always to mock the "master race" pretensions of the Nazis in every possible way, not to make light of the suffering of their victims. You'll find this attitude in everything from Bugs Bunny cartoons of the era to Spike Jones' "Der Fuhrer's Face:"

"Are we not der super-men? Aryan-pure super-men?
Ja, we ist der super-men! Suuuuper-duuuuuuper super-men!"

HH wasn't set in a concentration camp, either -- it was a POW camp, run by the Luftwaffe and governed by the Geneva Convention. A very, very different thing.

Foofoogal · Jun 28, 2009

The LAST thing I'd say is "Someday, we are going to laugh about this"... Laughing about it all, that's cathartic? You've got to be kidding... it sure wouldn't make either of us, or our two kids feel better.

chanteuseCarey: I am very sorry and do understand. This year has been unreal.
http://www.engineerjobs.com/

Posting this link in case you have not seen it. I will say a prayer for your family and many, many others in the same state.

Nathan Dodge · Jun 28, 2009

I'm reminded of that line from Woody Allen's film Crime and Misdemeanors:

"Comedy is tragedy plus time."

don't even get me started on "if it bends, it's funny; if it breaks, it isn't!"

H.Johnson · Jun 29, 2009

Not what I meant.

I think that this thread has missed my point. I was raising the issue of other people, who are not involved in a historical tragic situation, mocking those who were or are. Also, I think there is a difference between using humour to mock an enemy (e.g. The Great Dictator) and mocking people who I was brought up to regard as heroes (i.e. the 1911-12 British Polar Expedition).

I move that this is very different to people who are currently or have been involved or affected finding humour in a tragic situation as a means of coping, which is being refered to in most of the above postings.

Also, I move that there is a difference between humour that aims at mocking a stereotype and that mocks individuals by name. Capt. Scott, Wilson, Oates, Bowers and Evans and their like may have held moral values and a view of the world and their place in it that few hold today, but in my view that doesn't give comics a licence to mock them personally.

Just my opinion, of course. And I feel very much out of my time...

Paisley · Jun 29, 2009

chanteuseCarey said:
Maybe its just me, but I sure don't see anything funny or find a reason worth laughing at with what we are going through here. My husband is a computer engineer in No. Calif who has been out of a job for over six months (and only found contract work for 5 months of last year) and is actively looking for work with nothing turning up. I've been a stay at home mom for 16 years, and I'm looking for work too. Nothing turning up. We're two months behind on the house and equity line payments, and four months behind on many other payments. Retirement gone and used, college saving gone and used. We are genuinely worried about losing our home. We're trying to sell whatever possessions we can at half their value or less to bring in some income. The LAST thing I'd say is "Someday, we are going to laugh about this"... Laughing about it all, that's cathartic? You've got to be kidding... it sure wouldn't make either of us, or our two kids feel better.

I am sorry about your situation. I went through many layoffs when I was in the engineering field. To make it worse, people seem to think that if you have an engineering degree, you can run out and get a $100,000 a year job.

But life has a curious way of working out.

Six years ago, I was working with the Wicked Witch of the West (I am not exaggerating much), who would insult me, throw temper tantrums, and was doing her best to get me fired. Meanwhile, I did 90% of the work in the department. The management wouldn't do a thing to help. I was actually afraid of being assaulted by this woman, and I finally quit. Not funny at all.

A few months later, I got an interview with a competitor, and told them why I quit. My old boss confirmed that the individual was "difficult to work with." I got the job, and a few years later, my employer was considering buying out my old office--and putting the Wicked Witch of the West out of a job, because we won't even put up with clients who are that b!+chy. We didn't end up buying the office (it had way too many problems), but yes, I was laughing my head off. And yes, I suppose I was guilty of laughing about somebody else's (possible) misfortune.

I hope something turns up for you soon, CC.

miss_elise · Jun 30, 2009

the british polar heroes were not particularly heroic or awesome... they were under prepared and a little bit foolish...

I love the joke in Red Dwarf when Rimmer says "How do we know that Oates went out for this legendary walk? From the only surviving document: Scott's diary. And he's hardly likely to have written down, "February the First, bludgeoned Oates to death while he slept, then scoffed him along with the last packet of instant mash." How's that going to look when he gets rescued, eh? No, much better to say, "Oates made the supreme sacrifice," while you're dabbing up his gravy with the last piece of crusty bread."

it makes me laugh... and I'm not apologising for that

hatted · Jun 30, 2009

My father didn't allow us to watch HH when we were kids, and I think I agree with his point of view, that it belittles the tragedy of WW2. I see no problems in adults watching it, though. There are a lot of things kids shouldn't be watching (and do, anyway).

Benny Holiday · Jun 30, 2009

The most blatant and disgusting incidence of poor taste humour occurred a few weeks back here in Australia when the crew of the TV show "The Chaser's war On Everything" did a supposed comedy sketch mocking the charities like the Make A Wish Foundation that try to brighten the lives of terminally ill children or those suffering from life-threatening illnesses. I'd always liked the Chaser's irrevernt humour up until then, but they crossed way over the line with that atrocious so-called skit, which got the comedy director of the ABC sacked. The whole show should've been canned in my opinion.

miss_elise · Jun 30, 2009

Benny Holiday said:
The most blatant and disgusting incidence of poor taste humour occurred a few weeks back here in Australia when the crew of the TV show "The Chaser's war On Everything" did a supposed comedy sketch mocking the charities like the Make A Wish Foundation that try to brighten the lives of terminally ill children or those suffering from life-threatening illnesses. I'd always liked the Chaser's irrevernt humour up until then, but they crossed way over the line with that atrocious so-called skit, which got the comedy director of the ABC sacked. The whole show should've been canned in my opinion.

You didn't like the "Make a Realisitic Wish" Foundation? I thought the concept was amusing - but the execution could have been better

From Media Watch:
The Chaser wasn't the first to choose that particular target for humour.

"Hello Jasmine, it's Susan from the Reasonable Request Foundation, how are you love?"
— Web video, The Mansion, 12th June, 2008

The Mansion, on Foxtel's Comedy Channel, made essentially the same joke about the same subject last year.

No trip to Disneyland for you, kid, but 50% off your next set of prints from Photo Plus...

"I guess that's the difference between a wish and a request - you know you can say 'no' to a request.
What other, what other requests do you have Jasmine? A cure? No."
— Web video, The Mansion, 12th June, 2008

Well you may or may not think that was funny but the fact is The Comedy Channel got barely a single complaint.

Why? I'm inclined to agree with this comment on ABC Online's Unleashed:
"...it didn't actually feature dying kids in shot, whether actors or otherwise. As a result it felt a lot less offensive."
— ABC online, Unleashed, 4th June, 2009

Foofoogal · Jun 30, 2009

:eusa_doh:

horrid. way over the line.

from the OP. I am understanding you now. It is much a free for all lately. Wonder how long if it will swing the other way?

BellyTank · Jun 30, 2009

miss_elise said:
...it makes me laugh... and I'm not apologising for that

No, please laugh.
But perhaps you could have used better judgment.

B
T

H.Johnson · Jun 30, 2009

miss_elise said:
the british polar heroes were not particularly heroic or awesome... they were under prepared and a little bit foolish...

And so it's fine to mock them. I suspected as much.

bobalooba · Jun 30, 2009

H.Johnson said:
I wonder if I am alone in this? Do I need to change my personal attitudes to meet modern attitudes?

Never should you change your personal attitudes no matter how outside the norm they are.

Undertow · Jun 30, 2009

I suppose I'm a cold-hearted sort. I view humor as an entirely subjective matter and do not believe people "cross-the-line", in general. Public figures who are in positions of power over others' lives, however, may show bad taste in humor, in my opinion.

For example, I don't believe the President of the US should make light of war, and in particular, a war in which the US was currently involved. I will spare the details so as not to cross the political line here, but yes it happened within the last five to eight years, and THAT, I believe, was bad taste. I hold this principle because I don't think our Masters should take lightly our mortality, or livelihoods, etc.

However, if a television show, newspaper, music band, etc., wants to make light of MJ or a terrorist attack, or what have you, it may be bad humor, but nothing more.

However, I do make a distinction between direct, purposeful insults versus bad humor. I think far too many people take bad humor far too personal.

I'm a big jerk, I suppose. [huh]

miserabelle · Jun 30, 2009

I do think that it crosses the line to target specific people, I'm not particularly easy to shock or offend, but that sort of thing always really gets me. I don't really like humour at other people's expense, unless they're part of the joke themselves.

xx

MrNewportCustom · Jul 1, 2009

chanteuseCarey said:
Maybe its just me, but I sure don't see anything funny or find a reason worth laughing at with what we are going through here.

I fully sympathize with you and your family, yet I stand behind what I said; that in rough times we NEED to laugh, even at the situation. I have a friend in straits very similar to yours - including losing the house, which is imminent and unavoidable - and he finds ways to make light of it. So does his wife. Some people can, some people can't. Me, I find that joking and laughing about any bad times I'm in or have been in has always made it easier to cope, and that if I hadn't found the strength to laugh at certain of those situations, I probably wouldn't be here today.

Lee
__________________

"Laughter is the Best Medicine." - Readers Digest

Carlisle Blues · Jul 1, 2009

Abraham Lincoln may have said it best: “With the fearful strain that is on me night and day, if I did not laugh I should die.”

It is sometimes through life's most difficult times that I see the irony with which I find my strength. When I face life's greatest pains I find my serenity, it could be the sense of paradox that is present in these situations.

For example when I ran my own practice, instead of being the boss every client "ran" my practice subject to the laws which were promulgated to govern my profession.

Instead of "managing" my employees, I had to study each personality and learn to mesh with them in order to better serve my clients.

Instead of making the "big bucks" for sitting in the "big chair" I was the last to get paid and the last to eat after my dog.

While I had chosen my professional fate, I am grateful for the sense of humor I was blessed with. Without it I never would have survived the early days of no pay and Sundays cleaning the office and the bathrooms. While eagerly awaiting Monday mornings dressed in my suit and French cuffs.

While this was not "tragic" without a sense of humor it could have been in a professional sense.

Lokar · Jul 1, 2009

Undertow said:
However, I do make a distinction between direct, purposeful insults versus bad humor. I think far too many people take bad humor far too personal.[huh]

I know what you mean, but I also find that far too many people treat everything as humour. Insult somebody, and if they complain, just go "I was kidding! Can't you take a joke?", and mock them if they keep complaining. Say an offensive statement? Just say it was funny, etc.

BellyTank · Jul 1, 2009

Some folks here seem to think we're talking about laughing in the face of adversity. I don't think that's what H.Johnson is talking about at all.

B
T

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