Hillside USA Horsehide Samples

[AmericanIron]

Hi guys,

Thought I'd share these with you as it's the first time I've ordered samples from a supplier. I ended up ordering the jacket before the samples came in, but I did have a quick question about how companies do samples.

I was wondering if the "finish" that's applied to horsehide is typically applied to the samples. Saw a thread on Aero samples where it appeared that the finish was already on there, the samples I've received from Hillside don't appear to have the finish yet. I tested it by sprinkling some water on the hide and it did not repel the water at all, so I'm not certain what to make of that.

Either way, here are the shots of the black and brown horsehide samples. For whatever reason, the brown sample is much softer and more malleable than the black sample. Also the suede nap on the backside is far hairier on the brown sample. That being said I've noticed that trend in ALL leather goods, particularly boots. I own a pair of red wing iron rangers in black which are far stiffer than my friend's IR's in amber harness. Probably a dye side effect?


Black Sample (above)

Brown Sample (above)

Close up laid on Steerhide Schott 613 (above)

Further away laid on 613 (above)

Laid on different section of 613

The leather on the Schott 613 has been broken in heavily. It's buttery soft at this point after several hours spent in torrential new england downpours while on the bike. The sample actually looks quite similar to the Schott steerhide and FAR different than the Legendary USA Black Stallion jacket I purchased which looked more like Vinyl than leather. I've attached a shot of those two jackets as well to illustrate the difference.



I'll follow up this post with a side by side comparison of the sample against the jacket which is due to arrive later this evening, but in the mean time I hope this provides some insight for those who may have been curious.

Thanks!

 

[Edward]

The difference in stiffness you notice could be dying (assuming the tanning process is different), or it could be different hides. Don't forget that, being an organic substance, one hide can vary significantly from the next, animal to animal.

The finish characteristics you mention sound to me like the difference between finished and naked cowhide, though I don't know if there's such a thing as naked horsehide....

 

[pawineguy]

It's not typical for a jacket maker to add an additional finish on top of what has already been applied by the tannery. Samples are usually representative of the exact leather that the jacket will be constructed from, with the caveat (as Edward noted) that there can be variation between hides.

It will be interesting (and surprising) to see if the jacket doesn't match the sample.

 

[AmericanIron]

It's not typical for a jacket maker to add an additional finish on top of what has already been applied by the tannery. Samples are usually representative of the exact leather that the jacket will be constructed from, with the caveat (as Edward noted) that there can be variation between hides.

It will be interesting (and surprising) to see if the jacket doesn't match the sample.

Agreed, I would think that the samples they send are the same leather they would use to construct the jacket. If that's the case then this horsehide isn't shiny at all. That's a sharp contrast to what I saw with the Black Stallion which as I mentioned looked almost like vinyl at first glance. Anybody have experience with duller horsehides? If it's a sign of lower quality or lack of water resistance that would be troubling as the sample doesn't appear to repel water at all.

Have a feeling this jacket may be going back quickly. At least they offer free shipping both ways lol.

 

[roadking04]

I had a "horsehide" vest from hillside. I was very disappointed in it. I'm not sure it was horsehide to begin with. It was very spongy, almost rubbery. Most of the panels didn't match in grain or in feel. One of the panels even seemed synthetic to me. I don't have the vest anymore. It actually got ripped when I tried to remove a patch that I put on it. I guess you get what you pay for. I hope you have better luck than me.

 

[Monitor]

AmericanIron, it's all simply the matter of tanning. And a personal preference of the leather jacket manufacturer, of course, since they're the ones choosing what hide works best for their product. The reason why the samples you've received are so much different than the Legendary/Schott HH is only because the two companies are using different tanneries.

Fact of the matter is, horsehide doesn't necessarily need to be either shinier or stiffer than cowhide. In reality, horse hide isn't that different from cow hide. There's some difference in the amount of grain, hair folicules, etc. with individual parts of horsehide appearing smoother than the cowhide but by itself, one hide doesn't come any shinier by default than the other. That's all tanning.
People, experts who have handled thousands of jackets will tell you that with vintage leather jackets, short of putting the leather through a DNA testing, it's impossible to tell the difference between a cowhide and horsehide if there's no tag attached.

And yeah, manufacturers usually don't really add anything to the hide they use in construction of their jackets. Schott has been known to use a very interesting aging process that involves washing, then spinning already completed jackets, lining and all, to remove the secret liquid, then tumbling them with fine white chunks of pumice. They do this with 25 jackets at one time, or so I heard.

 

[AmericanIron]

AmericanIron, it's all simply the matter of tanning. And a personal preference of the leather jacket manufacturer, of course, since they're the ones choosing what hide works best for their product. The reason why the samples you've received are so much different than the Legendary/Schott HH is only because the two companies are using different tanneries.

Fact of the matter is, horsehide doesn't necessarily need to be either shinier or stiffer than cowhide. In reality, horse hide isn't that different from cow hide. There's some difference in the amount of grain, hair folicules, etc. with individual parts of horsehide appearing smoother than the cowhide but by itself, one hide doesn't come any shinier by default than the other. That's all tanning.
People, experts who have handled thousands of jackets will tell you that with vintage leather jackets, short of putting the leather through a DNA testing, it's impossible to tell the difference between a cowhide and horsehide if there's no tag attached.

And yeah, manufacturers usually don't really add anything to the hide they use in construction of their jackets. Schott has been known to use a very interesting aging process that involves washing, then spinning already completed jackets, lining and all, to remove the secret liquid, then tumbling them with fine white chunks of pumice. They do this with 25 jackets at one time, or so I heard.

These are points well taken.

I suppose it is up to the manufacturer to decide what type of tanning process they'd like and from whom they'd like to source their hides. In the case of Hillside USA though, I am with RoadKing on this one. I took the jacket out of the box, tried it on, and immediately wrapped it back up and put it back in the box. The fit is off, the leather soaks up water with no resistance whatsoever, it feels thin and flimsy to the point where even brand new the collar can't stand on end and the jacket just feels shapeless.

Thinsulate liner zips out which is nice, it's basically like the material schott uses in their perfectos but it continues into the arms. Fastens at the sleeves with a button which is a nice touch. Also like the ribbed cuffs at the end, but the way the jacket is lined...the starchiest of polyester almost akin to old suits at goodwill.

Honestly I'd like to give you guys a full review but there is no doubt in my mind that this is a pass for me. Sending it back ASAP. Really makes me reconsider my thoughts on the Black Stallion I sold. In the mean time though, I've ordered a 618HH in size 42 to see if I can't find the perfect horsehide jacket yet.

I'll leave this thread alone now though as further commentary would be unrelated to the original topic.

Hillside USA = Don't recommend

 

[Monitor]

AmericanIron, huh, not what I was expecting to hear but it's good to know in any case... Thanks for the review!

BTW, you are aware that the 618HH is made for exactly the same HH as the Black Stallion? Both jackets are made by Schott so there isn't going to be much difference as far as the leather goes. 618HH is a top jacket, though.

 

[AmericanIron]

AmericanIron, huh, not what I was expecting to hear but it's good to know in any case... Thanks for the review!

BTW, you are aware that the 618HH is made for exactly the same HH as the Black Stallion? Both jackets are made by Schott so there isn't going to be much difference as far as the leather goes. 618HH is a top jacket, though.

Yes and I'm actually quite excited about that. I loved the leather of the black stallion and everything about the jacket. If the jacket was still available in a size 40 there's not a doubt in my mind that I would be done searching for the right jacket. 42 was just too big in the waist and chest and let in air on the bike.

I ordered the 618 in size 42 as it should fit more snugly than the stallion of the same numeric size. Also I have a fur collar in size 42 laying around which will make a nice addition to the 618 (I'll post pics).

Hoping this will fit nicely and be the last time I have to order a jacket for a long time.

Thanks as always to everyone on this forum for your continued willingness to lend your expertise!

 

[Monitor]

Iron, my experience with Schott and their 'order one size larger' bs is that it is exactly that - bs. I am a size 40-42 in jackets and the supposedly slim 618HH was a good two size numbers too large for me, especially around the waist. Other than that, superb jacket.

 

[AmericanIron]

Iron, my experience with Schott and their 'order one size larger' bs is that it is exactly that - bs. I am a size 40-42 in jackets and the supposedly slim 618HH was a good two size numbers too large for me, especially around the waist. Other than that, superb jacket.

Same boat man, always a problem in the waist! My true chest size is 43. I been wearing a 40 in the 613 which was perfect in the waist but tight in tht chest. Hoping this 42 is a happy medium. Also hoping the back actually measures 25 per the chart cause my 613 is 25 on tht chart and 23 in reality

 

[Bunyip]

Speaking of kooky samples. I got mine from bill kelso last week. They are glued onto cardboard like a paint sample palette. Really strange trying to get a feel for it. And the usual folding and scrunching etc. I know it's high quality stuff, but I found that really strange.

 

[AmericanIron]

Speaking of kooky samples. I got mine from bill kelso last week. They are glued onto cardboard like a paint sample palette. Really strange trying to get a feel for it. And the usual folding and scrunching etc. I know it's high quality stuff, but I found that really strange.

That is very odd. What's the purpose of doing that over letting someone see the front and back of the hide? Strange method IMO. Got pics?

 

[Edward]

Iron, my experience with Schott and their 'order one size larger' bs is that it is exactly that - bs. I am a size 40-42 in jackets and the supposedly slim 618HH was a good two size numbers too large for me, especially around the waist. Other than that, superb jacket.

I think that's gonig to vary with bodyshape, really. I definitely need a size bigger in the 618 than I would in the 118 to get the same space in the shoulders, though for me the shoulder-relative to waist cut of the 618 is definitely better. Similar to my HWM being a 42, but needing a 44 in the slimmer, pre-war Aero patterns. We're all different shapes, though.

That is very odd. What's the purpose of doing that over letting someone see the front and back of the hide? Strange method IMO. Got pics?

Maybe they don't want somebody ordering samples to use for something else - wallet panels? Leather patches? :lol: I think it's probably intended to make the presentation of the samples look neater, but yes, I'd prefer them loose to gtet a better idea of what the leather is about too.

 

[AmericanIron]

I think that's gonig to vary with bodyshape, really. I definitely need a size bigger in the 618 than I would in the 118 to get the same space in the shoulders, though for me the shoulder-relative to waist cut of the 618 is definitely better. Similar to my HWM being a 42, but needing a 44 in the slimmer, pre-war Aero patterns. We're all different shapes, though.

I'm curious to know what your chest and waist measurements are. If your waist is larger than your chest I could see how this would make for a proper sizing guide. But with the waist measurement of the jacket being so large I feel like sizing up would be almost impossible without swimming in the lower section of the jacket.

Very surprised at the sizing on 618 pattern honestly. 1" shorter than the 118 in the length and 2" bigger in the waist. Shorter and wider seems like it'd always be the wrong way to go but they keep sellin em so maybe that's the customer base.

Given how difficult it's been for me to find a proper fitting jacket I would certainly be willing to admit that my body type is the minority lol.

 

[Guppy]

I had a "horsehide" vest from hillside. I was very disappointed in it. I'm not sure it was horsehide to begin with. It was very spongy, almost rubbery. Most of the panels didn't match in grain or in feel. One of the panels even seemed synthetic to me. I don't have the vest anymore. It actually got ripped when I tried to remove a patch that I put on it. I guess you get what you pay for. I hope you have better luck than me.

I bought a custom jacket from Hillside USA last year. I asked for it in naked cowhide, extra heavy, and got exactly what I wanted in terms of quality. I only wish the handwarmer pockets were larger -- they feel a bit cramped for my hands.

I don't know what their horsehide jackets are like, but I did get a sample of it, and it seemed thinner than what they used for my jacket. But then supposedly one of the advantages of horsehide is that it's stronger than cowhide of the same thickness. I'm surprised to hear that your jacket turned out so below expectation.

 

[LouisBailie]

Just get Lost Worlds, Branded, or Goodwear make you a jacket, their heavy horse hide is a good 1.6 to 1.75 thick.

Hillside uses 1.4 thick horsehide, if you think Schott is going to be better quality HH you are going to be vastly disappointed.

I believe Hillside has a 100% satisfaction guarantee so you may want to talk to them to see if their was a production problem, they will make their products correct or remake them...real simple.

If you want to know what and how the hide will appear on a finished jacket brush it and get it warm, when a sheen appears you have it...it will cause some or all of that grain to lay down in your sample pictures...and the water should start to bead.

 

[pak]

I have two Hillside products 1) basic horside vest: the hide is very uniform throughout and is very well constructed 2) a jean jacket in their naked cowhide. This jacket is substantial and also well constructed. Though not in the fashion arena of say Aero. Hillside products offer good bang for the buck.