Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Gene Allen]

@Gene Allen I looked on ebay (first 4 pages) without seeing any of them. A cursory search of Amazon didn't turn up anything. You probably ought to do a full ebay search, as I think that is the best bet. There should be thousands of them in circulation as all were replaced in 1984.

@O'DubhGhail Good eye. I had never noticed that before. But, yes, the WWII buttons do appear to be a bit slimmer.

@Gene Allen I looked on ebay (first 4 pages) without seeing any of them. A cursory search of Amazon didn't turn up anything. You probably ought to do a full ebay search, as I think that is the best bet. There should be thousands of them in circulation as all were replaced in 1984.

@O'DubhGhail Good eye. I had never noticed that before. But, yes, the WWII buttons do appear to be a bit slimmer.

Thanks.
I did look on eBay.
Quite a few coats, no loose buttons though.
I did find a smaller one through a retail shop.
It's 35 Linge, not 40.
I'm guessing from the dress uniform jacket.
I remember them being smaller than my peacoat.
I'll use that for now to close the collar and keep looking for the correct one.
I doubt anyone would notice but me, but I'd like to keep it the way it was when issued.

 

[Birddog1911]

I received 3 spare buttons with my new '49. I don't know a great deal about them, but if you tell me what to look for, maybe it'll be the one you need?

 

[Gene Allen]

I received 3 spare buttons with my new '49. I don't know a great deal about them, but if you tell me what to look for, maybe it'll be the one you need?

Thanks birdog.
The 49 would have plastic fouled anchor buttons.
When I was in, 75-79, they were pewter "zumwalt" buttons. They are a silver color version of a CPO's peacoat buttons
I hated the fact I never had the classic uniform everyone thinks of, but now, I am a bit nostalgic, and enjoy wearing my proper issued peacoat

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks.
I did look on eBay.
Quite a few coats, no loose buttons though.
I did find a smaller one through a retail shop.
It's 35 Linge, not 40.
I'm guessing from the dress uniform jacket.
I remember them being smaller than my peacoat.
I'll use that for now to close the collar and keep looking for the correct one.
I doubt anyone would notice but me, but I'd like to keep it the way it was when issued.

I believe the standard fouled anchors buttons are 40 linge and the pewter (and gold) colored buttons are 35 linge. I think the pewter and gold buttons only came in one size. When you get the button and compare it to the buttons on your jacket, please let us know.

@Birddog1911 Your 1949 coat has the standard fouled anchors type of button. I have some of those, as well as the WWI type buttons, but none of the pewter buttons that I could give him.

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks birdog.
The 49 would have plastic fouled anchor buttons.
When I was in, 75-79, they were pewter "zumwalt" buttons. They are a silver color version of a CPO's peacoat buttons
I hated the fact I never had the classic uniform everyone thinks of, but now, I am a bit nostalgic, and enjoy wearing my proper issued peacoat

I have conflicting notes concerning when the mandatory changeover to the Zumwalt buttons occurred. I have both July 1, 1975 and July 1, 1976. Do you have any evidence as to the year?

If you could tell me the month you entered boot camp and if you saw any sailors wearing the black plastic buttons when you joined the fleet, that would be helpful. Or if all were wearing the pewter buttons, that would helpful as well.

 

[Gene Allen]

I went in 28 November 1975
I believe the zumwalt change was 1974 to the early 80's.
Guys in the fleet that were there already, mostly Viet nam vets were still wearing crackerjacks and the Navy blue coat with plastic fouled anchor buttons.
The peacoat zumwalt buttons are 1 in., Or 40 Linge.
The dress jacket were the 35L, or about 7/8 in.
I measured them to be sure.
P.S.
The buttons are not the only difference, the coat is black, not Navy blue

 

[Peacoat]

I went in 28 November 1975
I believe the zumwalt change was 1974 to the early 80's.
Guys in the fleet that were there already, mostly Viet nam vets were still wearing crackerjacks and the Navy blue coat with plastic fouled anchor buttons.
The peacoat zumwalt buttons are 1 in., Or 40 Linge.
The dress jacket were the 35L, or about 7/8 in.
I measured them to be sure.
P.S.
The buttons are not the only difference, the coat is black, not Navy blue

Great. That tells me exactly what I need to know. The pewter button peacoats were first issued to recruits in 1974, and "mandatory" change over was July 1, 1976. I need to go in and make the change to my dating guide.

Yes, the Zumwalt buttons are 1" and the fouled anchors are 1.25" I wasn't aware those same type buttons, only smaller, were on the "Dress" uniform. I doubt that many enlisted sailors purchased a dress uniform. At the rank of Chief, it was probably a necessary part of the kit. Board member @thor will know as he was a Senior Chief. He is now a Captain in the civilian service. I have tagged him so he will see this post and can weigh in. He has a comprehensive knowledge of all things Navy.

The only Zumwalt peacoat I have is a 2000 version, which was the year of the changeover to the "black" Melton shell. There were some contracts in the mid 70s that called for the Melton shell. All of the ones I have seen are marked as such. I put black in quotation marks as the contract still calls it a dark blue, and Sterlingwear * says it is a very dark blue. Most of us have a hard time seeing the blue in the fabric, however.

Perhaps your issue coat was one of those contract years that called for the Melton fabric? Please post a photograph of your tag. I think you need 5 posts in order to upload an image. You can tell by looking at the orange buttons at the bottom of your message. If you see "Upload An Image," then you have sufficient posts to do so. Failing that, you could type the information on the tag in a post.
______
* Sterlingwear was the long time contractor for the Navy peacoat.

 

[Gene Allen]

We were issued a dress uniform in boot camp.
It was black trousers, black belt, black necktie,white button down shirt, black Oxford shoes and a a black coat.
Tropical whites were a white button down, no tie, and white trousers
The cover was like a chiefs, ( no Dixie cup), but the anchor was different.
I'll take a pic of the pea coat when I get it back from the tailor sewing the buttons.
I'm having all of them re-sewn.
It is a 1977 I picked up, but identical to the one I was issued down to the size

 

[Gene Allen]

Here is a great lakes graduation pic I found online
That was the dress uniform I was issued

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess the terminology has changed, or perhaps the Navy uses terminology different from the Army—no surprise there. Below is what I was thinking of when you said "Dress" uniform. I was thinking of the Mess Dress uniform. Below that is the Army officers' dress uniform. It later became the everyday uniform, worn with a long tie. We had to buy those ourselves. Next to the dress uniform is the officers' formal dress uniform. I never had occasion to wear that, and never bought it. The NCO formal dress uniform is almost identical except for piping on the sleeves and the shoulder boards.

 

[Gene Allen]

Yep, my brother was army, he wore his dress mess when he officiated my wedding

 

[Peacoat]

I'll take a pic of the pea coat when I get it back from the tailor sewing the buttons.
I'm having all of them re-sewn.
It is a 1977 I picked up, but identical to the one I was issued down to the size

And a pic of the tag, please. That way I will know exactly what you have.

 

[Gene Allen]

Will do

 

[Gene Allen]

Ok, got it back.
It's an 81, not 77, I don't know why I remembered it that way.

 

[Peacoat]

This is a 1981 peacoat. The changeover came in 1980. It is different from the coat you were issued in 1975. The buttons are the same and the style is the same, but the type of fabric, the weight of the fabric and the color are all different. If you check closely, you will feel an insulated liner between the shell and rayon lining. Your 1975 peacoat didn't have a liner because it didn't need one. The outer shell was thicker and heavier.

Not to say this isn't a warm peacoat, because it is. It is made warm by the insulation.

 

[Gene Allen]

Interesting details, I don't remember any of those differences.
What is the color change?
This one looks black like my issued one.

 

[Peacoat]

Did you notice any color difference between your issued peacoat and the peacoats of the other sailors once you got to the fleet?

 

[Gene Allen]

Yes, the new guys looked black, like our everyday dress, and the older guys dark blue like their crackerjacks.

 

[Peacoat]

Up until 1980 all peacoats, with a few exceptions, were made of Kersey wool. In the mid to late 70s the Navy let some contracts for the Melton wool, evidently experimenting with changing to Melton. From all I have seen, these coats were marked as Melton wool. Evidently, from what you tell us, some of the coats were black Melton, instead of the midnight blue. Not sure if these coats had the insulating liner or not.

When the Melton coats were first issued, I know there were complaints about the lack of warmth from those in the colder climates. The Navy fixed this by adding the liner. Don't know when this was. Evidently it was in the period of the mid to late 70s, as I have a 1980 coat (first year of the changeover) that has the liner. I hadn't noticed until someone mentioned that Navy had started that practice because of the complaints.

Nor did I know the Navy issued the "black" Melton peacoats as early as 1975. I thought it was in 1977 or thereabouts. I have one or two coats from the late 70s and they are of the standard Kersey midnight blue shell.

Thanks for the information. I will add it to the data bank.

 

[Gene Allen]

Well, I wouldn't swear to the slight difference you mentioned.
We thought they were black, but just to the eye.
We complained because we felt cheated out of a USN tradition.
The older coats though, were an obvious difference.
I really don't remember details about a lining or no lining at all.