Show Us Your Purchases....GUYS !

[Alan Eardley]

Thermal lining

A button-in liner was a relatively common feature in British (most likely Scottish) grouse shooting clothing. Remember that the 'guns' stand for hours in the freezing cold at butts while the grouse are driven over them by beaters, for some reason I can never work out. Those appear to be 'plus twos', by the way.

Alan

 

[herringbonekid]

i knew it !

thanks Alan,
i'm not a knickerbocker expert by any means...what are plus twos as oppose to plus fours ?

 

[Zemke Fan]

Scott...

NOW! I remember what got me thinking that this jacket might have been formal wear... Check out this pic from Marc C's thread on the Esquire magazines:

 

[Mr. Rover]

Yes- I just simply couldn't understand why people over at London Lounge thought that the Duke of Windsor's cotton button-in lining was a pair of boxers. It would naturally make more sense to use cotton as a lining material as a barrier to the scratchy, rough vintage tweeds. The satin might've been too delicate for lots of activity.
If there was evidence depicting that button-in underwear was ever an option or in style, please present it now.
Herringbonekid, I think the plus two and plus four refers to how many inches below the knees the knickerbockers hit.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Could be. That's probably what was in the Prince's trousers too.

bk

I think that your plus-fours had a button-in lining, but I'm all but certain that the PofW wore button-in boxer shorts ...

In the odious "London Lounge" forum, a chap described his pilgrimage to an English museum that acquired some of the PofW's suits. This man had the chance to inspect the suits personally, and to take photos. He clearly stated that there were boxer shorts buttoned into the suits' trousers.

.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

It would naturally make more sense to use cotton as a lining material as a barrier to the scratchy, rough vintage tweeds. The satin might've been too delicate for lots of activity.

Yes, but linings -- be they cotton or satin -- go down to the knee.

.

 

[herringbonekid]

there's no evidence in the photo that these don't go down to the knee...

i think the writer of the post was either jokingly using the term 'boxer shorts' or else he didn't know what they were and made a guess.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

In the odious "London Lounge" forum, a chap described his pilgrimage to an English museum that acquired some of the PofW's suits. This man had the chance to inspect the suits personally, and to take photos. He clearly stated that there were boxer shorts buttoned into the suits' trousers.

.

This is where my info came from. I was taking the chap at his word. I still lean towards his first hand knowledge on this point. I suspect he would not have described a lining as boxer shorts ...

bk

 

[herringbonekid]

we should probably move this to a new thread because it is getting very protracted....but how are those boxers ???

they have no front fastening and no elastic in the waist. if they were removed they'd be useless.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

So they're boxer shorts made exclusively for use with the trousers, not apart from them.



Look, the lining theory is equally odd. Why would anyone make a trouser lining that looks like boxer shorts, and is made of cotton? Have you ever seen such a lining? Furthermore, why would the lining be buttoned into the trousers, as opposed to sewn in? Dry cleaning existed in the era that those trousers were made (the 1960s, according to the fellow in the "London Lounge"). Why, then, would a lining be made to be removable? There is no need for such an invention.

Boxers, however, are another story. Since boxer shorts come into direct contact with one's, er, private area, they should certainly be laundered -- and frequently. Laundering these boxers is as easy as unbuttoning them from the trousers and throwing them into the wash.



Yes, it's eccentric -- but the Duke of Windsor was a rum 'un, no?

.

 

[herringbonekid]

so the duke was the kind of chap who, on removing his trousers, prefered to be standing about butt naked from the waist down ? while his servants brought him another pair of trousers with underwear buttoned in ? what possible advantage could attatching your underwear to your trousers have ?

sorry Marc, i say it's lining.



did you miss Alan's post.....?

"A button-in liner was a relatively common feature in British (most likely Scottish) grouse shooting clothing..

 

[herringbonekid]

at last, some 30s black derby boots in my size (deadstock).....

(actually the typography on the sole doesn't quite look 30s. so they may be later but made to a traditional design)

 

[The real Henry]

Yeah I saw those! They actually look brand new!

A nice find!

Regards,
Henrik!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Nice boots, Hez. I'm currently breaking in a pair of deadstock 30s shoes. not fun for the feet, i can tell you!

baz

 

[herringbonekid]

Yeah I saw those! They actually look brand new!

well they are brand new.. never worn !

Baz, the leather on this type of boot is usually very soft and no breaking in is required. i had a pair a long time ago which i wore to death and they were made from 'selected glace kid'....young goat, very supple.

 

[Salv]

...i'm not a knickerbocker expert by any means...what are plus twos as oppose to plus fours ?

I knew I'd seen an answer somewhere, and I've just found it on the Spencers Trousers site:

What are Plus Two's?: Plus Two's have a Two inch fold over below the knee. Traditionally styled Plus 2's giving deeper rise and a fuller fit.

What are Plus Fours: Plus Fours are longer and wider trousers with a baggy effect, They are called plus fours because to make them an extra four inches of material is needed to fold over below the knee.

Nice boots BTW...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

did you miss Alan's post.....?

"A button-in liner was a relatively common feature in British (most likely Scottish) grouse shooting clothing..

The Duke of Windsor's trousers are not from a grouse shooting suit. They're from a brown city-to-country day suit. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the Duke stood naked before his valet. Prince Charles had his valet put toothpaste on a toothbrush for him. Valets are used to doing very personal things for their bosses ...


.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Look like knickers to me ...

bk

 

[Alan Eardley]

Breeks

i knew it !

thanks Alan,
i'm not a knickerbocker expert by any means...what are plus twos as oppose to plus fours ?

Errr... they are never called 'knickerbockers', by the way...especially when talking to someone wearing them with a loaded double-barrelled Purdy in his hands. They're breeks, breeches or just 'plus twos'.

'Plus twos' extend to two inches below the knee and 'plus fours' to four inches.

Alan

 

[herringbonekid]

you've seen the photographic evidence now Alan. please end this debate....boxers or lining ?