The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

Discussion in 'Hats' started by Dakota Ellison, Jan 25, 2004.

  1. Miamibruno

    Miamibruno Practically Family

    Messages:
    991
    Location:
    Milton, MA
    Certo, Daniele.

    Brim = 2 inches with a Cavanagh edge
    Crown = 3 7/8th inches at the pinch
    Ribbon = 1 7/8th inch grosgrain ribbon
    Size = 7 ½ (6 ½ Punti)
    Length of opening = 8 ¼
    Width of opening = 6 ¾
     

    Attached Files:

  2. steur

    steur

    Messages:
    13,398
    Location:
    Nederland
    Boy, is my face red!:oops: You're absolutely right of course! Posting edited to correct this.
     
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  3. steur

    steur

    Messages:
    13,398
    Location:
    Nederland
    That is a second one as far as I know, Adrian. Usually, well as far as that goes for such a rare designation, the Aquila hats are the same as their nutria hats, meaning it seems to refer to the felt. Like these:
    aquil1.jpg aquil2.jpg aquil3.jpg aquila1.jpg aquila2.jpg aquila3.jpg aquila4.jpg

    The only other one that had the "qualitá aquila" was this one:
    aquilag1.jpg aquilag2.jpg

    It seems that the designation has been around for a while. The examples where it referred to the felt were earlier than the ones where it was used as aquality designation. Judging by the label on yours it dates from the early to mid sixties. The covering of the liner tip points in that direction as well. If I'm seeing it correctly the hat was sold through Carlo Lambardi of Rome, which isn't saying much, because they sold a lot of hats aimed for the American market (they just did it in Rome). It is still puzzling to me why Borsalino didn't use the felt quality as a selling point or marketing tool more often.
    A very cool hat and in a rare colour as well.
     
  4. Just Daniel

    Just Daniel One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,077
    Whew. I saw some earlier information that associated the Aquila with the felt. We know Nutria means Nutria (brilliant, I know), but any idea on Aquila for Eagle? Is it another question we just don’t know yet?

    One more question I am sure has been asked 1000 times but even after searching I can’t track down a clear answer for: dating your first hat above, the blue size tag, unsewn sweatband, and the liner label, do they help us narrow down a decade?

    Thanks!
    Daniel


     
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  5. steur

    steur

    Messages:
    13,398
    Location:
    Nederland
    Your guess is as good as mine I'm afraid. There aren't a lot of examples to put a complete picture together. In part the same goes for the other designations for felts that are known: nutria, castoro, martora, lontra, visone, chinchilla; we don't know if and to which degree these critters were actually used. Nutria and castoro (beaver) seem likely, but the others? Possibly, maybe? Who knows.
    The dating is based on all the examples of hats that were dated in one way or another (or based on other evidence). It's the closest we've gotten so far. Here's the total list of types of labels:
    borsalino cell type: 1920 -1936
    borsalino sideways: 1936 - 1953
    borsalino cerrated edge sheet: 1954 - 1960
    borsalino cerrated edge roll (straight edge left and right): 1961 - 1968
    borsalino rounded edge with colour name: 1968 - 1975
    dated labels (recognizable by the use of the hyphen between the first two and the rest of the digits): 1976 - 1983
    borsalino elongated label no colour name: 1983 - 2020
     
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  6. Daniele Tanto

    Daniele Tanto My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,357
    Location:
    Verona - Italia
    Adrian, despite the rare color and the words "Qualità Aquila", the Borsalino in question is one of the marketing hits of the Casa di Alessandria. Clearly the quality of the felt designated by the mention Qualità Aquila is used here as a "plus" to differentiate the product and the three stars as well. The latter is to "redo" the designations of the felt used in the States.
    As Stefan rightly explained, Lambardi was one of the largest American tourist hat sellers in the Eternal City.
    I believe that the desire of Borsalino after the Second World War to use the quality of felt as marketing was entirely nominal, even if from the Italian sources consulted in Alessandria, hair of various kinds continued to be mixed, but in absolute secrecy and according to the supplies received. Remember that Italy produced insufficient leather to satisfy the production of the hatbox industries.
    For its dating it is a hat from the late sixties and early seventies, even if I don't like to be clairvoyant about the age of the hats, however it is a combination of color, a rare designation of felt, so Adrian you are a lucky man.
    Of the same "Qualità Aquila" hats posted by Stefan, only the first one, sold in Brasil was made before the Second War
     
  7. Miamibruno

    Miamibruno Practically Family

    Messages:
    991
    Location:
    Milton, MA

    Stefan,

    I totally agree that my hat is from the 60s and that it is a quality rather than a felt designation. I think the 3 stars indicate beaver, though I wouldn't swear to it. The felt, as I said, feels beaver like. Reminds me of the Resistor 3Xs.
     
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  8. Miamibruno

    Miamibruno Practically Family

    Messages:
    991
    Location:
    Milton, MA
    Daniele,

    Grazie. Sei il vero professore di cappelli.
     
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  9. Daniele Tanto

    Daniele Tanto My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,357
    Location:
    Verona - Italia
    Adrian Grazie. Troppo buono!
     
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  10. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    4,270
    Location:
    Kansas
    [QUOTE="Miamibruno, I think the 3 stars indicate beaver, though I wouldn't swear to it.[/QUOTE]

    I think the four X's in mine indicate frog hair and manatee fur, though I wouldn't swear to it. When I put it up for sale on ebay this will be my story and I'm sticking to it. Selling blue sky is no sin, is it?

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Joel-Ruthie Simon

    Joel-Ruthie Simon New in Town

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Riverdale, NY
    Her my 2014 Borsalino Augusta Ring: COD 1122, COL 0421 14P002561, Size 60 (7 1/2). Its a Pre Bankruptcy fedora.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Daniele Tanto

    Daniele Tanto My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,357
    Location:
    Verona - Italia
    Borsalino I cappelli del Senatore.jpg

    A degree thesis dedicated to Borsalino. It is an economic history essay presented as a dissertation at the London Schools of Economys. I have read it and with a little calm I will give some riddles for all those who want to know the historical economic path of the world famous hat maker.
     
  13. Just Daniel

    Just Daniel One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,077
    Sweet liner and sweatband!


    I think the four X's in mine indicate frog hair and manatee fur, though I wouldn't swear to it. When I put it up for sale on ebay this will be my story and I'm sticking to it. Selling blue sky is no sin, is it?

    [​IMG][/QUOTE]
     
  14. steur

    steur

    Messages:
    13,398
    Location:
    Nederland
    Borsalino in the colour sandalo. Size 60 (American 7 1/2) with the bound brim at 5,5cm and the crown at 11cm at the center dent. So considered a stingy in these parts but a quality hat by any standard. Nothing spectacular, but for posterity, completeness and because of the unusual colour it gets its place. Early to mid seventies for this one.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. mayserwegener

    mayserwegener

    Messages:
    15,563
    Location:
    Maryland
    Stefan, Another super find! Also more great color combinations.
     
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  16. steur

    steur

    Messages:
    13,398
    Location:
    Nederland
    Thank you, Steve!
     
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  17. steur

    steur

    Messages:
    13,398
    Location:
    Nederland
    Borsalino Faunosca 38 1/2 in averla colour in a size 56 (7 American) qualitá extra superiore. Bound brim with four rows of extra stitching at 6,5cm and crown 10cm at the center dent. Very cool ribbon treatment and a lightweight hat at just 78 grams.
    The liner was removed at some point and put back in crooked.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  18. Guardian Enzo

    Guardian Enzo One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Kobe, Japan
    As a proud Faunosca owner I heartily approve this message.
     
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  19. Hettie Heijnis

    Hettie Heijnis New in Town

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Nederland
    [QUOTE = "steur, post: 2546840, member: 36136"] Uit het algemene overzicht van kleuren en modellen weten we al dat er van beide enorm veel zijn. Dat geldt zowel voor de situatie van de jaren twintig tot eind jaren vijftig, toen de modellen werden genoemd in naar mijn mening de fonetische notatie van het Alessandrische dialect, als de latere productie toen de modellen alleen nummers hadden die verband hielden met catalogi.

    We hebben niet een brede steekproef van alle modellen en er zijn genoeg voorbeelden van modellen waarvan er maar één exemplaar bekend is. Het is zeker dat wat ik code 1 noem (in de linkerbovenhoek van het label) gerelateerd is aan de modelnaam toen die in de rechter benedenhoek van het label werd genoteerd. Ik kom zo meteen bij de voorbeelden.

    Hier is een bijgewerkt overzicht van kleuren en modellen :

    [ATTACH = volledig] 168242 [/ ATTACH]


    [ATTACH = vol] 168243 [/ ATTACH]

    De " onzichtbare kleuren " is gerelateerd aan de fantastische foto van [USER = 4246] @mayserwegener [/ USER] die hij maakte toen hij met Daniele de fabriek bezocht van de kleuren van de windcords, met de kleurnamen op de dozen. Om compleet te zijn:

    [ATTACH = volledig] 168244 [/ ATTACH]

    De lijst bevat niet de vilten, omdat er enige onzekerheid bestaat over deze verwijzen naar het vilt zelf of naar de afwerking van de hoed. Maar voor completisten: ik heb deze vilts gevonden :
    nutria
    Castoro
    Martora
    aquila
    lontra
    visone
    chinchilla
    We weten uit de gevonden folders dat er een verband bestaat tussen sommige aanduidingen en viltinhoud, maar dit kennen we alleen van deze aanduidingen:
    trionfo (= konijnenvilt)
    extra superior (=rabbit felt)
    castoro (=beaver felt)


    Finishes are named specifically as well on a good number of hats. These names I've found so far:
    serikon
    diamante
    angora
    pesca
    imperiale
    silchi
    mimosa
    krystal
    peluche
    castoro

    Quality designations are availbale in abundance too:
    qualitá speciale
    qualitá extra extra superiore
    qualitá extra superiore
    qualitá superiore
    qualitá finissima
    qualitá extra finissima
    qualitá suprema
    qualitá massima
    qualitá augusta (on sweatband)
    qualitá superlativa
    qualitá victoria

    The preliminary findings of the research of the labels in the next post.[/QUOTE]
     
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  20. Hettie Heijnis

    Hettie Heijnis New in Town

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Nederland
    Great information!
     
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