Notre Dame Cathedral

[GHT]

Just in case there are a few souls still following this, the donations for the restauration have exceeded the 1 billion Euro mark & despite the initial sadness of the event, there seems to be a surge of creative energy regarding the reconstruction; Will the framework be made of wood or steel or even concrete, are they going to copy the plans of the original or opte for a completely new structure using today's technology.

A fascinating, but so cynically true, text that I received from a good friend, made me think about Notre Dame's reconstruction. My friend noted that in WW2, the cities of Coventry & Dresden were bombed to oblivion. Dresden's Gothic Cathedral rose from the ashes, painstakingly over many decades. Coventry got a slab sided, modernistic monstrosity. I do hope that the French take the same route as Dresden.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

A fascinating, but so cynically true, text that I received from a good friend, made me think about Notre Dame's reconstruction. My friend noted that in WW2, the cities of Coventry & Dresden were bombed to oblivion. Dresden's Gothic Cathedral rose from the ashes, painstakingly over many decades. Coventry got a slab sided, modernistic monstrosity. I do hope that the French take the same route as Dresden.

Let' not forget, only the roof was burnt down, the rest is still standing so not really in the same category as other cathedrals that were completely destroyed. Besides, the whole world is watching which may help those involved from not " Creating a carbuncle on the face of an old friend."

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Sooooooo, the cost of the repairs for this edifice has been estimated at between 300 million & 600 million euros. The installation of the scaffolding alone is expected to cost 25 million.....jeez, those guys know how to charge.
Anyway, the debate is now on; what to do with the rest of the dough. I say don't make any plans yet 'cause when it comes to building work, the final bill is usually considerably higher than the initial estimate.

 

[GHT]

Anyway, the debate is now on; what to do with the rest of the dough. I say don't make any plans yet 'cause when it comes to building work, the final bill is usually considerably higher than the initial estimate.

A new railway line across London, via a tunnel was estimated to cost £2Billion at 1993 prices, it should have been finished last year. The opening date keeps getting pushed back, now we are looking at 2021, and the cost? £21Billion and counting.

 

[Artifex]

The authorities who put these jobs out for tender have a habit of giving it to whomever promises to do it fastest and cheapest. Since the techniques used for such work are generally well-established standards, the prime ways for a company to make such a promise are:

1. Be incompetent at planning
2. Do a substandard job that technically meets the specifications
3. Lie

With such credentials, is it any wonder that these projects routinely run into difficulties?

On the other hand, I strongly believe that any nation with the economic resources to do so should invest in sustainable infrastructure. The construction of railways (preferably electric ones) has enormous long-term benefits at every level. What would London be without the Underground?

 

[Edward]

It would be interesting to peak into an alternative London where the tube did not run... certainly in the short term (as we see when there is industrial action) there would be chaos. It's frustrating to see crossrail running so slow, but at least the work is happening..... one of our former mayors had to resort to campaigning to host the Olympics to strongarm central authorities into investing in the long-underfunded tube over a decade ago. It was dreadful having the Olympics here, but the long run benefit to transport was great.

One can only hope that this spurs the guardians of other historic buildings towards taking greater precautions. How many other nations have great monuments teetering one bad decision away from disaster?

I fear the answer is "All of them".

Always going to be a balance between such precautions and preservation of historical originality.

* When one knows the history of relics & their commercial value during the middle ages, there is next to no chance that any relic is genuine.

Absolutely, though that doesn't necessarily detract from them haing grat cultural significance and therefore value.

Indeed & if I may put my cynical hat on here, the enthousiasm of the French ruling classes to rebuild the damaged part of the cathedral has less to do with history than it does with tourism, after all the old lady attracts millions of visiters every year.

No doubt, though at the same time I know that St Paul's here in London - and, I'm told, Westminster Abbey - costs so much to run that it would be very difficult to keep open but for the tourist income, so it's not purely a profit-driven affair.

What I mean is, what company underwrites a policy on a world heritage site like that? What would said policy look like? How much are the premiums? Not doubting, just curious about how that works on something for which the historical and cultural value cannot be measured and far exceeds any potential monetary value. For example, the White House is not insured. The US government just pays whatever it costs for anything. I would have thought something similar in this case, but I don’t know.

It was similar in the UK in the wake of the Windsor Castle fire in 1992: turhed out then that no insurance at all covered the building, because it was simply rated as uninsurable given that a claim would inevitably mean the total bankruptcy of any firm who had taken it on. Initial suggestions that the public purse would meet the £36.5million cost (closer GBP60 million in today's money) were somewhat controversial. In the end, 70% of the cost was covered by opening Buckingham Palace as a tourist attraction for part of the year (this was based on an initial five-year period, but proved sufficiently popular and thus profitable that it became a standing arrangement). The Queen also contributed GBP2 million from her private wealth, and further agreed to pay income tax from 1993, becoming the first monarch since the 1930s to do so. Assuming the donations to Notre Damme tat have already been pledged materialise, they aren't likely to have a problem funding it.

Vienna's cathedral ("Stephansdom") had its entire roof burned-off at the end of WWII, and all its windows blown out. It has since been restored. Same with an uncountable number of historic buildings all across Europe. Tourists may think they are looking at originals, but often it is not the case.

Still. I can't help but think that something is lost each time an ancient structure is rebuilt.

Something lost and yet something added to the rich history of buildings which are often, it is easy to forget, still living places of worship for many people, not just an an cient building prese4rved in aspic.

 

[Haversack]

The day after the fire I was feeling somewhat depressed so I watched the 1966 movie about the liberation of Paris, Is Paris Burning? The cathedral plays a central role in the film. I had also forgotten that the end credits feature an aerial colour shot of Notre Dame from a helicopter circling around it.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Vienna's cathedral ("Stephansdom") had its entire roof burned-off at the end of WWII, and all its windows blown out. It has since been restored. Same with an uncountable number of historic buildings all across Europe. Tourists may think they are looking at originals, but often it is not the case.

Still. I can't help but think that something is lost each time an ancient structure is rebuilt.

A couple of other notable examples are Cloth Hall in Ypres, Belgium (destroyed during WW1) and St Mark's Campanille in Venice, Italy (collapsed in 1902, rebuilt 1910-12)

 

[Tiki Tom]

Twelve proposals for how to rebuild Notre Dame. From the sublime to the ridiculous. Although I prefer a traditional/historical rebuild, I suppose I could live with one of the glass designs.

https://nytize.com/world/from-a-for...12-architects-proposals-to-rebuild-notre-dame

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Amusing as the proposals are, it looks like the roof will be reconstructed similar to how it was since being a historical building, there are limits both structurally & legally as to what can be done.

 

[Artifex]

Somewhere, out of the public gaze, a lone competent architect is moaning in despair at the abandonment of aesthetics and ignorance of history that these lunatics have brought down upon the profession.

Buzzwords and poetic gibberish are no consolation to the future populations that would have to put up with those carbuncles.

 

[Zombie_61]

Somewhere, out of the public gaze, a lone competent architect is moaning in despair at the abandonment of aesthetics and ignorance of history that these lunatics have brought down upon the profession...

Meanwhile, the "architects" who designed Las Vegas' current incarnation are jumping for joy.

 

[Tiki Tom]

For the first time in over two centuries, there will be no Christmas mass at Notre Dame cathedral.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...otre-dame-cathedral-for-first-time-since-1803

Mass will be held elsewhere. But I’m still hoping for a spontaneous appearance of candle light Carolers or a visit from Saint Nicholas himself in front of Notre Dame.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

 

[Tiki Tom]

Oh, no! Not again...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53455142


https://www.euronews.com/2020/07/18/large-fire-at-nantes-cathedral-in-france

 

[Lean'n'mean]

As for Notre-Dame, it has been decided (yes, miracles do happen) that the spire at least, will be rebuilt like the original. A wise precaution prehaps, people have had their belly-full of 'novelties' just of late.
A reminder of how it was.(it's the black pointy thing)

 

[Zombie_61]

As for Notre-Dame, it has been decided (yes, miracles do happen) that the spire at least, will be rebuilt like the original. A wise precaution prehaps, people have had their belly-full of 'novelties' just of late.
A reminder of how it was.(it's the black pointy thing)...

Sounds like someone was...inspired.

 

[Tiki Tom]

When this tragedy first hit the news, it was remarked that, nowadays, there are simply no oak trees left in Europe that are big enough to rebuild Notre Dame as it was originally built. Now it seems that, perhaps, this is not entirely true.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...live-on-for-centuries-in-new-notre-dame-spire

I’d be interested to hear if these trees are smaller than the originals, or if they completely fit the requirements. It’s nice to think/hope that such trees still exist.

 

[MisterCairo]

When this tragedy first hit the news, it was remarked that, nowadays, there are simply no oak trees left in Europe that are big enough to rebuild Notre Dame as it was originally built. Now it seems that, perhaps, this is not entirely true.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...live-on-for-centuries-in-new-notre-dame-spire

I’d be interested to hear if these trees are smaller than the originals, or if they completely fit the requirements. It’s nice to think/hope that such trees still exist.

I read that article in Canada's National Post and had forgotten this thread! Thanks for posting and linking!

 

[Tiki Tom]

Apparently the work to stabilize Notre Dame is now done, meaning that the artisans can now safely proceed with tha actual rebuild.

https://6abc.com/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-rebuild/11030996/

 

[Lean'n'mean]

meaning that the artisans can now safely proceed with tha actual rebuild.

Only those with vaccine passes.