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Five Star Leather Jackets
- Thread starter TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead
- Start date
spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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- 189
Sort of a funny story (got me and my wife laughing anyway): When I started down this leather jacket path, I had a few key criteria in my mind. I stumbled on the Indy, and it pretty much checked all my boxes. I kept stumbling, and found Wested. Then stumbled further and found a reference to Fivestar making completely custom jackets at reasonable prices. Then stumbled further and found this thread. Somewhere in there, I ordered a cheap-o Indy from Amazon to see how I liked it. It was OK, but didn't fit, the leather sucked, etc.
Anyway, back to the punch line. The one or two solid references in this thread to Fivestar's fitment jackets indicate it probably runs around $100 extra. It occurred to me that the OTR jackets (with a little adjustment for measurements) are pretty cheap, and it might make sense to get an actual jacket as the fitment rather than (I have no idea how the fitment jackets are made, or what they're made of to be honest). What's the cheapest OTR jacket? An Indy! So for $50 extra (give or take for the sizing premiums), I could potentially just have a complete extra jacket... and we've come full circle.
That said, I wonder if I should be concerned about using an Indy as a roundabout fitment jacket for a half belt, since they're pretty dramatically different patterns... The pattern that's closest to what I'm after is the "1930s" half belt, and those only show up OTR in horse hide for $350... I'm sure if I asked, he'd make it in another less expensive hide for cheaper. Might even be able to say something like, "Could I get that in XXXX for $150 as a fitment jacket?" or something. Maybe he'd be amenable to that.
Anyway, back to the punch line. The one or two solid references in this thread to Fivestar's fitment jackets indicate it probably runs around $100 extra. It occurred to me that the OTR jackets (with a little adjustment for measurements) are pretty cheap, and it might make sense to get an actual jacket as the fitment rather than (I have no idea how the fitment jackets are made, or what they're made of to be honest). What's the cheapest OTR jacket? An Indy! So for $50 extra (give or take for the sizing premiums), I could potentially just have a complete extra jacket... and we've come full circle.
That said, I wonder if I should be concerned about using an Indy as a roundabout fitment jacket for a half belt, since they're pretty dramatically different patterns... The pattern that's closest to what I'm after is the "1930s" half belt, and those only show up OTR in horse hide for $350... I'm sure if I asked, he'd make it in another less expensive hide for cheaper. Might even be able to say something like, "Could I get that in XXXX for $150 as a fitment jacket?" or something. Maybe he'd be amenable to that.
spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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The Wested is something like $300+, and it's not really what I'm after at the end of the day (a half belt with some interesting details). The only point in getting one from Fivestar would be to have a wearable jacket (to keep or sell) for ~$50 more than a fitment jacket while also getting the data I need to get the jacket I'm really after. That it's a substantially different pattern gives me pause that it would even be able to do that though...
I wish people here would stop saying "fitment" when they mean fit, lol. Fitment means plumbing fixtures and the like, haha.
Many people here do this, and it is a very bad idea. Ultimately, the same measurements across different patterns are meaningless; and when the base pattern to begin with is (to say the least) unreliable, it's even more meaningless.
The best course of action for what you seem to want to do is to just buy a used half belt whether from a forum member or vintage.
Many people here do this, and it is a very bad idea. Ultimately, the same measurements across different patterns are meaningless; and when the base pattern to begin with is (to say the least) unreliable, it's even more meaningless.
The best course of action for what you seem to want to do is to just buy a used half belt whether from a forum member or vintage.
spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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For 300 and a bit pages, I was genuinely impressed with the positivity and spirit of the people on this forum. There would be fairly constructive criticism, but never personal attacks (at least not that weren't deleted by the moderators). I get that a few people have burned out on Fivestar. Sorry you feel that way, but it's understandable. Different strokes. That initial impression made the return to "general internet" character over the last several pages extremely disappointing. There's PLENTY of information in the last 392 pages to scare anyone away that's going to be scared (there's plenty more to inspire as well). If you don't want to eat the Cheerios, that's fine; you don't need to piss in everyone else's bowl. There's plenty else to keep you occupied out there. Move on.
Speaking of moving on....
I entertained the idea of buying a vintage half belt. I went back through the whole thread, and looked at every mention of "half belt". The reception to the Fivestar half belts seems to be pretty universally positive. The few complaints were down to getting measurements wrong and not understanding how half belts are made. @Canuck Panda has an impressive collection and even more impressive catalog to pull from, and surmised that the Fivestar half belt pattern is not based on anything vintage, and is a somewhat modern take on the style. That's just fine by me. Maybe even preferable.
I really just need to get my hands on some jackets to get my measurements truly nailed down. A nice little bonus is that I'm selectively obsessive, and will fret over everything before I pull the trigger, and then turn it off once the jacket is in hand. At that point, I won't have any need or desire to nitpick every stitch and millimeter. If it's better than a mall jacket (and with my measurements, that'll be hard not to do), I will be happy as a clam.
Speaking of moving on....
I entertained the idea of buying a vintage half belt. I went back through the whole thread, and looked at every mention of "half belt". The reception to the Fivestar half belts seems to be pretty universally positive. The few complaints were down to getting measurements wrong and not understanding how half belts are made. @Canuck Panda has an impressive collection and even more impressive catalog to pull from, and surmised that the Fivestar half belt pattern is not based on anything vintage, and is a somewhat modern take on the style. That's just fine by me. Maybe even preferable.
I really just need to get my hands on some jackets to get my measurements truly nailed down. A nice little bonus is that I'm selectively obsessive, and will fret over everything before I pull the trigger, and then turn it off once the jacket is in hand. At that point, I won't have any need or desire to nitpick every stitch and millimeter. If it's better than a mall jacket (and with my measurements, that'll be hard not to do), I will be happy as a clam.
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Where did I attack you personally?
I think you’re putting too much weight in Tony and Canuck’s impressions of Five Star half belts. I respect them both but they had deluded themselves in those projects leading to things like the CHL leather. I think they would say so themselves.
And no, the ‘measurements wrong’ explanation is not it and never was. A workable pattern will work (even if it’s the wrong size) with measurements up or down. These did not ‘work’.
There are some pathways to a decent Five Star, one of which have already laid out and someone else just followed.
It’s not about “a modern take on the half belt”; it’s that most of the catalog consists of jackets they made based on photos people here sent them.
I’m sorry but from your last paragraph it seems you don’t understand how garment patterning works. I’m not a stitch counter or specific tannery fetishist; I criticize that regularly. A mall jacket, frankly, will probably have a better pattern.
I think you’re putting too much weight in Tony and Canuck’s impressions of Five Star half belts. I respect them both but they had deluded themselves in those projects leading to things like the CHL leather. I think they would say so themselves.
And no, the ‘measurements wrong’ explanation is not it and never was. A workable pattern will work (even if it’s the wrong size) with measurements up or down. These did not ‘work’.
There are some pathways to a decent Five Star, one of which have already laid out and someone else just followed.
It’s not about “a modern take on the half belt”; it’s that most of the catalog consists of jackets they made based on photos people here sent them.
I’m sorry but from your last paragraph it seems you don’t understand how garment patterning works. I’m not a stitch counter or specific tannery fetishist; I criticize that regularly. A mall jacket, frankly, will probably have a better pattern.
spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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Was not responding to you.
Sorry bud. You’ll figure it out on your own I’m sure.
spectre6000
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 189
I've been warned, as have we all. You can sleep soundly in that knowledge.
LOL. I sleep fine thanks. Go chase the dragon. You can tell me I was right on page 800. I also never personally attacked you to the best of my knowledge. But please, by all means, crack the code!
spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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- 189
The CHL leather experiments were experiments. Experiments fail; that's why they're experiments. They felt around for the edges of the box, and found them. The criticisms were of the leather though, not the pattern. Too thick is too thick. Too stiff is too stiff. I've done a fair amount of leather work (non-garment, to be fair), and I know how thick leathers behave and go together. I understand exactly why they were not happy with those results. Maybe Fivestar could have stepped in and said the leather shouldn't be used in jackets, or modified patterns to work better with the thicker leather, but the Fivestar Machine doesn't do that.
As for the measurements, go back and look like I did. I think there were maybe two that fell under the measurement category. One was too aggressive with a collar, and I forget the specifics of the other. The construction issue had someone (not going to name names, I doubt they're paying much attention to this thread any more) expecting the belt to be more substantial, and then I think retracted the criticism when it was pointed out that that's just how half belts are.
Responding to your last paragraph responding to my last paragraph, I didn't have you or anyone else in mind there. Simply laying out my own mentality, and why I'm likely to be happy with the end result.
I wasn't just talking about the leather itself.
In their initial posts about CHL, they were marveling about how amazing the leather was. Canuck said it's the best possible leather option from there, due to the sheer density. Eventually, reality hit and they admitted to themselves the leather was terrible.
Likewise, out of the initial excitement as seemingly unlimited jacket design opportunity, they didn't complain about the patterns… once that novelty faded… do you see my point?
Look, if you want a relatively safe solution to this, just buy any vintage half belt on eBay (they don't go for much, compared to things like Perfectos or military jackets; you could probably land something great for well under $100), mail it to Five Star, have them make a graded version of the pattern including one in your size. Get it in goat but get assurances that it won't be a stinky batch.
In their initial posts about CHL, they were marveling about how amazing the leather was. Canuck said it's the best possible leather option from there, due to the sheer density. Eventually, reality hit and they admitted to themselves the leather was terrible.
Likewise, out of the initial excitement as seemingly unlimited jacket design opportunity, they didn't complain about the patterns… once that novelty faded… do you see my point?
Look, if you want a relatively safe solution to this, just buy any vintage half belt on eBay (they don't go for much, compared to things like Perfectos or military jackets; you could probably land something great for well under $100), mail it to Five Star, have them make a graded version of the pattern including one in your size. Get it in goat but get assurances that it won't be a stinky batch.
That was a comment about the finishing; yes it was wrong, but the person in question didn't come around to saying "but the jacket was great" as a conclusion.
This is exactly my experience. I lied to myself about quality that is simply not there. People can post all the pics and descriptions and blah, blah, blah. I know. Been there! It’s a $100 jacket shipped at absolute best. Period, and end of story. And that’s being generous IMO. Frankly the used market will yield a better result result at sub $50
TartuWolf
Practically Family
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I'll stay on the positive side of this - go for it @spectre6000 ! I believe you can end up with something great like @KBlake even on the 1st try if you really nail down the measurements, pick a pattern that is based on a repro not pictures and actively prevent the common pitfalls. You can pm me if you want some tips but keep in mind that I'm one of the less knowledgeable and experienced here.
Maybe start off with this and make a half belt instead of side buckles? You can ask Kblake directly about mobility and pattern.
https://www.fivestarleather.us/products/civilian-vintage-1930s-leather-jacket
Maybe start off with this and make a half belt instead of side buckles? You can ask Kblake directly about mobility and pattern.
https://www.fivestarleather.us/products/civilian-vintage-1930s-leather-jacket
Furrowson
One of the Regulars
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When you take delivery of something you've had custom made, got all excited about and waited (and paid) for, it's really hard to be impartial about the result. Takes a while for the reality to reveal itself.
It's a great thing about "used" pages like Aero's, because you can take a punt, no emotional investment, and return it if you don't like it. Or keep the bargain, top rate piece that you really do want if you do like it.
I get the appeal of Five* and the whole journey of ordering with them. It's a bit of a slot machine, which is fun! Cost effective? Depends what value means to you, I'd say.
Very well said! I realize I come off as a dick in this thread but in all honesty, I’m trying to save people wasted time, money and effort. Perhaps my delivery is too harsh. I think you summed it up perfectly.
I mean I do understand Tonys view on five star after "burning" a lot of money on them .
Five star is a bit of a roller coaster of emotions.You get excited because you have the creative freedom of replicating a very expensive jacket or inventing your own without questioning yourself about price.
It is the same concept as all you can eat Buffets or all in collusive Hotels.
You feel like the millionaire that can get anything you want.
However this excitement quickly fades once you realize you are not that millionaire that buys himself a bespoke handmade artisan product but rather a fast knock off made in Pakistan which factory is surrounded by cobbled together factorys in a under developed place .
My personal aha moment was meeting the Pakistani jacket maker here in Germany with birth defects on his hand and face which reminded me of the documentaries about India and their polluted water sources .
I do think they make a good quality product in general.
I find no problems with the cotton twill linings which are tough or even the heavy finished russet steerhide .
However I still give them a lot of credit for trying to make this crowd happy .
The CHL was a leather made by this thread. And it was probably a bad investment but still a investment.
Not everyone would have tried to make a leather like this because of some collectors and enthusiasts in a online forum .
I find it unfair to discredit them because they most definitely try to cater to this crowd.
Their patterns are OK if you go stock.Maybe not the silhouette preferred by collectors here but ask anyone in the streets if they find anything wrong with not skin tight sleeves .Most mass market stuff is pretty boxy .
Almost no big chain stores even have leather products anymore.
Most people that asked about my jackets were really impressed about the weight, Leather thickness and overall build quality
Five star is a bit of a roller coaster of emotions.You get excited because you have the creative freedom of replicating a very expensive jacket or inventing your own without questioning yourself about price.
It is the same concept as all you can eat Buffets or all in collusive Hotels.
You feel like the millionaire that can get anything you want.
However this excitement quickly fades once you realize you are not that millionaire that buys himself a bespoke handmade artisan product but rather a fast knock off made in Pakistan which factory is surrounded by cobbled together factorys in a under developed place .
My personal aha moment was meeting the Pakistani jacket maker here in Germany with birth defects on his hand and face which reminded me of the documentaries about India and their polluted water sources .
I do think they make a good quality product in general.
I find no problems with the cotton twill linings which are tough or even the heavy finished russet steerhide .
However I still give them a lot of credit for trying to make this crowd happy .
The CHL was a leather made by this thread. And it was probably a bad investment but still a investment.
Not everyone would have tried to make a leather like this because of some collectors and enthusiasts in a online forum .
I find it unfair to discredit them because they most definitely try to cater to this crowd.
Their patterns are OK if you go stock.Maybe not the silhouette preferred by collectors here but ask anyone in the streets if they find anything wrong with not skin tight sleeves .Most mass market stuff is pretty boxy .
Almost no big chain stores even have leather products anymore.
Most people that asked about my jackets were really impressed about the weight, Leather thickness and overall build quality
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