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Does anyone have a Real McCoy AND a Buzz Rickson N-1?

NE202DC

Familiar Face
Messages
64
But, looking at the position she shows where she plans to shorten it, are you sure that this is enough? Looks like she is only planning for an
It looked higher up when they were marking it off in the shop. It might have been the angle in the video, but I suppose if it comes out and I need further alteration, they'd be able to do so.
 

CatsCan

Practically Family
Messages
567
Location
Germany & Denmark
I don't wanna talk into your tailors calculation. My tailor is 85 years old and just continues work for fun. He opened the whole sleeve up to the elbow, tapered it, shortened it, re-did the double stitch. This was a lot more work. He wanted 15 $. I gave him 50 $ and he was glad to give it to his grandchildren for christmas. But this is no fair comparison.
I am not in DC. And he is no longer officially in business.
I am sure she can judge if a taper is not necessary. I think the taper is not much if at all in the last 5 inches on a RMC sleeve to begin with so this is likely really unnecessary. On my Pike Brothers it definitely was necessary. It was huge, like a trouser leg. Upper leg. Imagine!
 

CatsCan

Practically Family
Messages
567
Location
Germany & Denmark
I'll make sure to ask about keeping the excess materials, including the alpaca. They told that they've been doing this their entire life and if they couldn't keep the integrity of the jacket, they would have turned down the job. I'll keep everyone updated on how the finish product turns out.
That's how it should be. Men let their 2000 $ suit jackets be altered to fit their arm length. Why should this scare a good tailor.
 
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CatsCan

Practically Family
Messages
567
Location
Germany & Denmark
It looked higher up when they were marking it off in the shop. It might have been the angle in the video, but I suppose if it comes out and I need further alteration, they'd be able to do so.
Better right now. Saves costs. But I think she had you put on the jacket and marked where you wanted? Better safe than sorry.
 

NE202DC

Familiar Face
Messages
64
Better right now. Saves costs. But I think she had you put on the jacket and marked where you wanted? Better safe than sorry.
I did try it on when I was in there and the one tailor marked it off, so hopefully this will be a one-off without any further alteration required.
 

CatsCan

Practically Family
Messages
567
Location
Germany & Denmark
You can look over there in the other thread (The Deck Jacket Thread). among the latest posts is Mumpy's RMC where he shows where the sleeve ends at his.
 

NE202DC

Familiar Face
Messages
64

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Dredgen Yor

New in Town
Messages
45
Location
Portugal
Some detail pics of the Mil-Tec. Artificial lining, flat Bedford-like sturdy 100% cotton shell, no real "Jungle Cloth" but not bad either. Feels and drapes well. If you look closer you can make out a difference in the weave compared to "Jungle Cloth", but who cares. On the good side: it comes with an internal breast pocket. Very practical. Don't expect high end repro quality, though, it's made in China (as is Bronson). The cut is good. Color is very nice indeed, I think it's the right color. And cheap it is. It's just not higher end.
Mil-tec is a german company, selling mostly cheaper end re-enactment and military gear repros. Don't know if they are availlable in the US.
The original buttons it comes with are crap. I had sewn on better buttons but in the wrong way, horizontal thread instead of vertical like on the originals but who cares. You can see my laundry marker job at the stencil. One photo shows the generic zipper pull. But hey, we are talking about 85 € here. I have seen them on ebay for 70 €.

View attachment 579924
On this one I have changed the closure of the internal breast pocket from velcro to button hole. Not very professional, but at least it does not sound crrrrzzzzt every time I open it. View attachment 579932
Here the pocket on the other one still with velcro.

View attachment 579933


View attachment 579925 View attachment 579926 View attachment 579927 View attachment 579928 View attachment 579929 View attachment 579930 View attachment 579931
Very cool discussion, I was hoping if you could help me figure out if this product from Bronson is using a real jungle cloth weave. They are deck overalls modeled after 1940’s navy ones and claim to use “100% cotton. 14 oz. jungle cross cloth” , thank you kindly in advance for any knowledge spared on this subject.
 

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CatsCan

Practically Family
Messages
567
Location
Germany & Denmark
I was hoping if you could help me figure out if this product from Bronson is using a real jungle cloth weave.
Nowadays there are many different fabrics refered to as "Jungle Cloth", "Jungle Cross" and they come in various weights. It is really difficult to judge what "real Jungle Cloth" must be like if one can't compare to the original side by side. Also the cotton used today differs alot from the cotton sourced back then (long vs short staple). Another factor is if the same vintage machinery was used on which the originals were once produced (The Japanese claim this to be the case for their "Jungle Cloth") So in my opinion if not original period fabric was used we can only talk about fabrics that come close or very close to the original.
Pike Brothers refers to their "Jungle Cloth" as "double sided Jungle Cloth". When I look at the Pike Brothers N-1's fabric from the left side, which I had the opportunity when the sleeves were altered, I can see why. It looks the same from both sides of the fabric. It feels thicker than on my Bronson, although my Bronson is tighter and stiffer. I have not seen my Bronson's fabric from the inside, but spying through the eylets down at the cuff cord tunnel It looks the same as from the outside, so basically what Pike Brothers is refering to as "double sided". To me your Deck Pants look like Jungle Cloth should look like, just "brushed" on the left side of the fabric, maybe to make it softer to the touch worn directly on the skin. I think I can see the same weave as on mine. Bye the way, Pike Brothers mentioning "double sided" for their Cloth could be an old misunderstanding from the Company as in the literature this term is often times only refered to the Alpaca lining ("double sided Alpaca"). The latter seems to be a misunderstanding in itself as the original N-1 had no "double sided Alpaca", but the early Parka Liners were double sided and thus quite a lot thicker and bulkier.

I attach photos from the Pike Brothers (first one) and Bronson N-1 (second one). Through the eyelets you can see the left side of the fabric. Hope that helps.
Edit: Attached a photo of an original 1944 first pattern Khaki N-1.

By the way, looking at the photos you can cleary see the difference in quality, the eylets, the cord used, the stitching, everything is much more sophisticated on the Pike. But this does not mean it's more authentic. It just says, that the company tries hard to satisfy their customers who want no less.

Congrats to your nice Deck Pants! Sometimes original N-1 Bibs can be snatched from ebay for cheap!

P1130004.JPG

Early Pike Brothers N-1 Deck Jacket Khaki.


P1130007.JPG

Bronson N-1 Deck Jacket Blue.


Original first pattern khaki N-1.jpg

Vintage original early 1944 first pattern khaki N-1
 
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Dredgen Yor

New in Town
Messages
45
Location
Portugal
Nowadays there are many different fabrics refered to as "Jungle Cloth", "Jungle Cross" and they come in various weights. It is really difficult to judge what "real Jungle Cloth" must be like if one can't compare to the original side by side. Also the cotton used today differs alot from the cotton sourced back then (long vs short staple). Another factor is if the same vintage machinery was used on which the originals were once produced (The Japanese claim this to be the case for their "Jungle Cloth") So in my opinion if not original period fabric was used we can only talk about fabrics that come close or very close to the original.
Pike Brothers refers to their "Jungle Cloth" as "double sided Jungle Cloth". When I look at the Pike Brothers N-1's fabric from the left side, which I had the opportunity when the sleeves were altered, I can see why. It looks the same from both sides of the fabric. It feels thicker than on my Bronson, although my Bronson is tighter and stiffer. I have not seen my Bronson's fabric from the inside, but spying through the eylets down at the cuff cord tunnel It looks the same as from the outside, so basically what Pike Brothers is refering to as "double sided". To me your Deck Pants look like Jungle Cloth should look like, just "brushed" on the left side of the fabric, maybe to make it softer to the touch worn directly on the skin. I think I can see the same weave as on mine. Bye the way, Pike Brothers mentioning "double sided" for their Cloth could be an old misunderstanding from the Company as in the literature this term is often times only refered to the Alpaca lining ("double sided Alpaca"). The latter seems to be a misunderstanding in itself as the original N-1 had no "double sided Alpaca", but the early Parka Liners were double sided and thus quite a lot thicker and bulkier.

I attach photos from the Pike Brothers (first one) and Bronson N-1 (second one). Through the eyelets you can see the left side of the fabric. Hope that helps.
Congrats to your nice Deck Pants! Sometimes original N-1 Bibs can be snatched from ebay for cheap!

View attachment 585899 View attachment 585900

By the way, looking at the photos you can cleary see the difference in quality, the eylets, the cord used, the stitching, everything is much more sophisticated on the Pike. But this does not mean it's more authentic. It just says, that the company tries hard to satisfy their customers who want no less.
Thank you for the quick and very detailed response and compliments to my new deck overalls! I’ve learned a lot! You are part of the reason, along with other generous knowledgeable individuals like you, help make this forum the best one I’ve ever had the pleasure to be a part of.
 

CatsCan

Practically Family
Messages
567
Location
Germany & Denmark
I edited my post about the details of the fabric. I attached a photo of an original early 1944 first pattern khaki N-1.
The differences are minor. I believe the original weave is denser or tighter in lack of a better word.
 
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