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Pecard Classic Leather Dressing vs. Pecard Antique Leather Dressing

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by Claybertrand, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. Claybertrand

    Claybertrand Familiar Face

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    68
    I have several jackets ranging from more fragile really dried out older leather from the 40s-50s to 70s-80s leather that really just needs to be cleaned and lightly conditioned. I am in the process of cleaning them all to prepare for conditioning.

    Due to the high praise and recommendations for Pecard here in the Lounge, I ordered their Antique dressing because I am starting on the older jackets first. I got a 32oz tub online for $33 delivered. So now I am wondering if I shouldn't just order the regular or "Classic" dressing as well at this time, (as Pecard refers to it on their site) OR whether I can use the Antique on all the jackets I have. I have many jackets so having a tub of each on hand would perhaps be handy if they are distinctive.

    Is there a major difference between them?? I mean, one would assume there is a difference otherwise--why have 2 products but maybe one can be used on old and new and the other on only one or the other. Are their limitations on either of them?? Is the Antique just the watered down version of the Classic?? I know at the end of the day, its probably not THAT big of a deal but I'm just curious what the Lounge thinks.

    Can anyone here kindly throw some of their experiences with Pecard into this thread especially any experience with the Antique Dressing????:rolleyes:

    Thanks and......

    Lounge-On Loungerszzz!!!!!!!!!:cool:
     
    AbbaDatDeHat likes this.
  2. seres

    seres A-List Customer

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    344
    Location:
    Alaska
    Like you, I thought there must be some difference, so I ordered both. They both appear the same, and after trying them both on the same older jacket (one on one sleeve, one on the other), I can't see any difference.

    So I would use the one you have... just apply it very lightly and let it absorb slowly.
     
  3. Seb Lucas

    Seb Lucas I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,596
    Location:
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    Some years ago, the owner of Pecards advised members on Club Obi Wan (Indy fan site) that all of their dressings are pretty much identical. Marketing is the reason for the differing emphasis.

    There's a heap of info on Pecards and other dressings on this site already And this question seems to come up every 12 weeks.

    Pecards is also the same product as Harley Davidson leather dressing. It's repackaged.

    You can also use Vaseline - which is very close to Pecards.

    These dressings are temporary fixes. The dressings evaporate in time and pretty much look like it did before you dressed it.

    I have two 40 year-old Norwegian leather chairs. They were looking faded and dry. I dressed one and left the other A few weeks or months later both chairs look identical. The dressed chair is just as faded and dry but it briefly looked revived. I suspect leather dressing is a bit like make up.

    Nothing wrong with Pecards but if a jacket is cracked or rotted it can't fix it.

    And never use more than a thin coat. Once your jacket becomes greasy it takes months for the dressing to evaporate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
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  4. Carlos840

    Carlos840 One Too Many

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    1,922
    Location:
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    What he said, Pecard is all the same, the different names are just there to help google searches.

    Use sparingly, less is more. Better do three thin coats than slather it thick like a mentalist.

    It's not magical, nothing can save cracking leather.
     
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  5. bluesmandan

    bluesmandan One of the Regulars

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    253
    Location:
    United States
    Pecards or vaseline? No thanks. Don’t put mineral oil or petroleum based oils on your leather. Nothing that will eventually turn rancid or break down the leather.

    Use obenauf’s or some other similar conditioner. I make my own with 2 parts jojoba oil and 1 part beeswax melted together.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Logician and handymike like this.
  6. Ernest P Shackleton

    Ernest P Shackleton Practically Family

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    764
    Location:
    Midwest
    I've never used Pecards. Just here to offer an alternative if you don't care for the result. I've liked the results from Lexol Leather Deep Conditioner, and it is easily found everywhere (don't have to order it to experiment with it). They have a couple other products as well. A cleaner and a restorer. I have not used either of those though.

    *big fan of Obenauf's as well, but for bigger jobs and for when feeling lazy, Lexol.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  7. willyto

    willyto Practically Family

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    908
    Location:
    Barcelona
    Lexol or Bick4 for me. Also used Elephant Leather Preserver (Hint: Doesn't contain any elephant).

    I used once the vaseline and it worked but as Seb said it's a temporary fix. I feel that other conditioners do a better job for much longer.
     
  8. nick123

    nick123 I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,431
    Location:
    California
    Question: As most here can probably agree that the leather in appearance returns back to its original state a few weeks/months after treatment, is this the full scope of conditioning or is there some unseen replenishment working deep in the fibers of the hide itself at work that lasts longer than appearances would imply? if the former is the case, how can that be a true benefit to jacket longevity at all?

    I use Obenauf's. That was my personal conclusion after researching pros and cons of each. Not sure if there is a holy grail conditioner out there that has no cons.
     
    sweetfights likes this.
  9. Claybertrand

    Claybertrand Familiar Face

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    68
    Thanks for all of the responses so far. Apologies for the novice faux pas of asking something that has been addressed and rehashed every few weeks. I'm sure there were some eye rolls among those seeing ANOTHER PECARD question thread.... My Bad :confused: I did search the forums for information but didn't dig deep enough apparently to find the particulars on Pecard Antique vs. Regular dressing.

    That said, I should have known we all have our methods to our madness and that the question of leather conditioning is tantamount to asking about Home Cold Remedies or Grandmas Recipe for Meatloaf. There are going to be opinions and feelings and facts and fictions of varying degrees and some are bound to contradict each other.

    First, there are different products and different intended uses they are marketed for obviously. Saddlery and Tack for horses is not the same leather as leather seats in a Porsche or leather work boots or fancy cowboy boots. Leather for real moto ride gear is used differently than just sporting a leather jacket around town. Obviously the "around town" jacket isn't getting road dirt, debris and bug guts spattered against it at 80 MPH. None of these leathers are necessarily the same as a fine leather desk chair or couch etc. etc. etc.......

    SO, I think a there needs to be some sorting out of what is said and known about leather from the leather type and intended use perspective. Meaning if you read an article about Horse Saddle reconditioning or Moto ride gear conditioning, though many aspects of the process and reasoning may ring true for ALL leather treatment, there are particular things done to those leathers that not all leathers necessarily require because their intended use is different.

    WARNING--BLASPHEMIC PROCLAMATION HERE: I am actually starting to question whether Pecard is what I should be using at all in my leather collection. This is echoing bluesmandan and Mr. Shackleton's posts somewhat in that I have always been advised to steer clear of Petroleum based leather conditioners and it appears Pecard with its close similarity to Vaseline is petroleum based. (SideNote--Not surprising that Harley Davidson repackages and markets Pecard dressing under its own brand as both companies are Wisconsin based).

    This is NOT intended as critical indictment of any kind of Pecard products. I think it could be that Pecard may be a product more appropriate for Moto gear that WILL see the road and all the grime that comes with it. Perhaps it waterproofs more strongly than other products?? Others may be more appropriate for Saddles as they are equipment and not apparel.

    I had been using Lexol Deep Clean for cleaning and Lexol Deep Conditioner but had heard others saying it was ineffective and touting Oberhaufs, Chamberlain, Pecard, Mink Oil, Neatsfoot Oil, Vaseline etc. so I decided to buy some Pecard and see how it compared. Ultimately, each person's experience is unique and if you have something you really feel works for you, by all means stick with what you like.

    I think that I will stick with the Lexol products but will try the Pecard on one jacket as well to gauge how I like working with it. I will also look into the Oberhaufs as suggested.

    That said, and this is not an Ad for Lexol here, but I found an informative interview on Reddit with Dr. Don Jenkins and Phil Meyers from Summit Industries, the parent company and manufacturer of Lexol products. I encourage anyone interested in this ongoing debate to read this interview. The explanations and debunked myths are interesting and factual. Obviously, there is a tinge of marketing bias being that the interview is with Lexol's people. Look through this though to glean what you will.

    Here is a link for the Reddit posted interview. I think it can be found elsewhere but this is one link to it (apologies if this has been previously posted):

    https://www.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/2syks3/an_interview_on_leather_care_with_lexol/

    I'm not some voice in wilderness trying to convert anyone or foul everyone's weekend with a debate that may just boil down to personal taste here. I just found it informative and it corrected some things in my mind regarding leather conditioning.

    Additional input, comments, experiences, reactions to the Lexol interview etc. would be appreciated but I understand if this is something people don't want to get into.

    Never talk about religion or politics at a party--AND Never ask about what leather conditioners members use in the Fedora Lounge lest---our tenuous Peace be shattered :eek: !!!

    Cheers!!
     
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  10. Ernest P Shackleton

    Ernest P Shackleton Practically Family

    Messages:
    764
    Location:
    Midwest
    Don't forget/be afraid of using a hair dryer to warm up the leather for deep conditioning. No need to go crazy with the heat. Lowest setting on a hair dryer and from several inches away.

    That's not the first time I've heard, or read, saddle soap is a poor way to clean leather.
     
  11. Peacoat

    Peacoat I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    4,368
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    See link below to a Leather Conditioner thread, the last post of which was February 9, 2019. That's right, just last week.
    https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/what-leather-conditioner-do-you-use.44676/

    @nick123 and others who question the long term effectiveness of leather conditioner. let me assure you there is such a benefit. I starting riding horses as an adult 31 years ago. Don't much ride anymore, but I do occasionally check on my tack. Recently did so and gave everything a coating of RM Williams. I found my first bridle from back then, and it was still fairly supple. Beginning to dry out as I hadn't conditioned it in a number of years. Once I conditioned it, back to soft and supple. And this bridle, as well as all of my other tack, had rough treatment—sweaty horses, being caught in the rain, etc. I used Lexol cleaner to get the sweat off and Lexol conditioner and saddle soap to keep the leather supple. It has worked for me and has worked well over the years.

    I found one martingale that I quit using years ago as one of the leather pieces had broken off. It was dried out and appeared almost ready to start cracking. I had to give it two coats, and it still wasn't as soft as the other pieces of tack.

    So, my point is, the tack I had been using and conditioning over the years was still in good shape, almost like new. The martingale I quit using, and quit conditioning, was dried out and another year or two of neglect would have done it in.

    Our jackets don't get the use and abuse that tack does, but eventually they will also need to be conditioned. May not be for 20 or 25 years, but eventually they will get there. And they may need to have the conditioner repeated every year or three, after that, depending on what is used.

    None of my jackets are approaching that age, but I do apply a bit of Pecard to the inside of the collar every year or so on the jackets I regularly wear. I haven't been using Pecard for 30 + years as I have the Lexol, but I have been using it for maybe 15 years. It is easy to apply and I have had good results with it.

    As far as Obenauf's being a superior conditioner because it contains no petroleum products, well we really don't know what is in it, as the company doesn't tell us, except in general terms. I'm not fond of Obenauf's because it is hard to apply. I got a tub of Heavy Duty LP, so that might be the problem. Obenauf's Lite might be just the ticket, but I got it for my boots and wanted a heavy duty product. Well, I got it! It does well on my boots, but I'm not inclined to put in on anything else.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
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  12. Claybertrand

    Claybertrand Familiar Face

    Messages:
    68
    Your question is a good one and its gets to the crux of something I am wondering as well:

    Is dressing that appears to have worn off/been absorbed/evaporated away/or just simply doesn't look as fresh as when it was applied still embedded and soaked into the leather to a degree such that there is still some deep beneficial conditioning and lubricating of the leather fibers??

    One would think that the more often you replenish the skin with tanning oils, the less it would need like topping off your gas tank often instead of running to empty and doing full fill ups.

    ***Perhaps I should have stated this possibly important factor: I Generally only buy Vintage jackets. So I don't have the big money brand new or custom made jackets I am trying to maintain. In almost all cases, the jackets I have have been poorly maintained if maintained at all and were likely stored improperly for years as well in who knows what kind of climate and humidity. None of my jackets are severely cracked or have holes or anything. But they are in many cases worn to a patina and dry not to mention also harboring varying levels of multi owner grunge.***

    For me, in many cases, the jackets are seeing the first conditioning care they have in possibly decades. I was thinking perhaps something is best for severely dried out leather and perhaps something else is best for more regular 2-3 times a year maintenance. The reasoning being: It seems leather like wood simply needs periodic replenishment of the oils to maintain a naturally durable state. An old dry jacket will need more time and more applications then would a maintained jacket or a newer model that hasn't had time to be neglected.

    I think one BLATANTLY OBVIOUS elephant in the room that doesn't help is that leather conditioner manufacturers do not divulge their product ingredients or IF they do, they are relatively vague about it. Though from a business standpoint this is totally understandable, from the evaluations and product comparison standpoint, the waters remain murky.

    How can one maker stress staying away from Petroleum based oils and treatments while others are made almost entirely of said oils?? Have we learned something about leather treatment in the last 40-50 years that renders some Old Classic products obsolete??

    I wonder........
     
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  13. Claybertrand

    Claybertrand Familiar Face

    Messages:
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  14. GHT

    GHT I'll Lock Up

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    5,268
    Location:
    New Forest
    There are some amazing products that can rejuvenate tired leather, but it really comes down to personal taste. A restored leather garment tends to loose it's charm, but as always, others will disagree. Paradoxically I like restored leather in some spheres, like the leather seats of a classic car. These before and after pictures more or less sum that up. The car is a vintage Rolls Royce.
    black-coat-repair-before-after-l.jpg Silver_Shadow_Resto.jpg
     
  15. Claybertrand

    Claybertrand Familiar Face

    Messages:
    68
    Thanks for sharing. Good example on the old unmaintained tack vs. the maintained comparison. I dated a girl who had a horse and she used to use Murphy's Oil Soap in gel form on her tack because she said Lexol was too expensive and she didn't think it was worth it on her old tack.

    I believe that is a non petroleum product but I don't know if its proper neutral PH for leather care. I was told to use even more natural glycerin soaps for cleaning such as Dr. Bronner's but while it isn't acidic, it IS a little to alkaline coming in around 8.8 (vs. other soaps up in the 12 range and Lexol Deep Clean listed as PH Neutral).

    I've been happy with the Lexol Deep Clean and in limited use, I have liked the results of the Lexol Conditioner as well. I read one user who said the Lexol didn't absorb into the leather because it was too much of a liquid. I have had quite the opposite experience. According to Lexol, their conditioner is emulsified into a fairly stable liquid form (although you must shake it well) so you would think emulsified and more liquified oils would absorb easier into dry leather than would the thicker gel forms of Pecard and the Heavy Duty Oberhaufs. That's just my simple minded logic though. Nothin scientific.... Having not tried Lexol and Pecard side by side on the same leather--so I cannot personally say for sure.
     
  16. Claybertrand

    Claybertrand Familiar Face

    Messages:
    68
    HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!! Great visuals man!!!! Those RR seat pics speak THOUSANDS of words!!!! Thanks for posting these.

    Good point you make. I agree with you that there is a time and place for WORN PATINA. Sometimes that kind of character is desired and certainly many times it comes down to taste or what the item is. Rat Rods would certainly have different wear than would a Vintage Rolls Royce but each would be appropriate.

    Leather after all is dead skin. It can't heal and grow like a living organ anymore. So punctures, holes, tears, cracks, flaking can not be undone. It can only be treated to slow additional damage from developing over time.
     
  17. Ernest P Shackleton

    Ernest P Shackleton Practically Family

    Messages:
    764
    Location:
    Midwest
    The key to Obenauf's Heavy Duty LP is heat. Or more aptly, warmth. A hair dryer. You can use an oven, but even on the lowest setting, it is still too hot. I think "warm" on most ovens is 150°F. In my opinion, that is far too hot and beyond necessity for us. The leather will soak up Obenauf's like water to a dry sponge with the addition of heat. It's not as easy as shake>spray>wipe like Lexol, but I also feel Obenauf's gives far superior protection and conditioning. On the other hand, Lexol won't get sucked down into the threading with a spray and a wipe like Obenauf's does. Different needs and desires though. If you're waterproofing something, you want all the stitching holes to swell or fill with the product. That's not really the goal --though it can't hurt-- if you're just conditioning. That addition of heat doesn't hurt when using Lexol either.

    I should also add that unless you really goop a lot on (ie too much), warming the leather with a hair dryer can replace the need to buff off excess conditioner. To me, getting the leather to suck in more conditioner is more desirable than wasting product with buffing it off.
     
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  18. Seb Lucas

    Seb Lucas I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,596
    Location:
    Australia
    Always amuses me when people think petroleum derived products are almost radioactive. There is nothing in Pecards or Vaseline that will rot or hurt leather. It may not do it any good long term but it won't harm. It's ph neutral and no more damaging than all the nasty chemicals often used to process leather in the first place.

    John Chapman of Goodwear leather - an expert on leather and jacket making - has looked into this and he recommends vaseline.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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  19. Seb Lucas

    Seb Lucas I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,596
    Location:
    Australia
    As I said, Nick - my take is it works like make up. It looks good for a while it lasts but if you leave it alone the leather will revert to it's original dry condition. I believe it is no more than a temporary fix.
     
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  20. nick123

    nick123 I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,431
    Location:
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    A temporary fix versus long-term fix thought process...interesting. It'd be interesting to find some scientific data on leather care.
     

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