Question about Belstaff

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by G'c, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. G'c

    G'c Familiar Face

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    London/Hong Kong
    I used to buy some second hand belstaff jackets way back when it wasn't sold to some other company for pretty good prices. I didn't buy any more belstaff jackets since then as there are many other options out there....

    Recently my wife went to london and bought at their outlet a belstaff cougar for me. From the details it seems it's an "updated" version as the hardware is different. This prompted me to check out this particular model online, and prompted these questions:

    1. A search of belstaff cougar only comes up with the old model (i.e. with the UK flag underneath one of the chest pocket, metal logo on sleeve , etc. There is practically no info on the updated cougar. Wondering if anyone here know if this model is discontinued? (the paper tag I have for this jacket states that it's cougar and the year is 2017.

    2. I know they have a pure motorcycle range, which release some similar models but allow CE armor inside. I heard from years ago (which might not be the case now), that the motorcycle range is cheaper than their fashion range. Was wondering will anyone actually purchase the motorcycle range for streetwear purpose? (i.e. for ppl who don't ride motorbikes?). I recall seeing similar cougar models for the motorcycle range possibly with cheaper price, but just different belstaff logo (which to be honest, I don't care either way since having the logo on the jacket itself is actually quite distracting).

    I know belstaff is considered by many as a "fashion" brand but I am sure some ppl here also have knowledge about belstaff that may shed some light.

    I know this question would be more properly answered at filmjackets but unfortunately activity there is really low now....
     
  2. robrinay

    robrinay One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    Sheffield UK
    I fancied a wax jacket around 8 years ago and at that time there were few stockists in Sheffield so I went to Sheffield Motorcycle Centre where they had the full range of ‘proper’ Belstaff jackets with pockets for armour. Their leather jackets were really expensive. Instead of a wax jacket I bought the (then) recently released replica of the XL500 in blue, an up to date version of their 1970s nylon jacket. It’s got provision for armour, it’s tough and waterproof has a popper in quilted liner rubber cushioned poppers on cuffs and lower waist to protect the bike from scratches and still looks great. Like their wax jackets it’s surface clean with water only. I’ve seen some of their fashion jackets and while they look good the leather is either soft or really soft and probably not as hard wearing as the motorcycle range.
     
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  3. galopede

    galopede One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    203
    Location:
    Gloucester, England
    I bought a Trialmaster at a bike shop in Cheltenham about 33 years ago as i wanted a decent waterproof for the daily 15 mile bike commute. It was an excellent jacket, comfortable and waterproof. Cost me about £35 then, quite expensive I thought!

    Just looked them up on the Belstaff UK site and they are now £1250. WHAAAAT?

    Mine did last many years though. I passed it on to my son when it started getting a bit tight and he wore it for years, basically as a fashion jacket as he never rode.

    I then bought one of their cheaper man made fibre jackets which I still use occasionally.

    As an aside, has anyone noticed that almost all British tv detectives these days have a sidekick sergeant who wears a Belstaff or similar bike jacket? EG: The sergeant on the current incarnation of Midsomer Murders, the Northern Irish pathologist on Silent Witness, the sergeant on Vera etc. I do wonder if it is the same jacket from the costume department!

    Gareth
     
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  4. galopede

    galopede One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    203
    Location:
    Gloucester, England
    Edward likes this.
  5. Carlos840

    Carlos840 Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,762
    Location:
    London
    A friend of mine bought a brand new Belstaff waxed cotton jacket and it was nothing but disappointment for him.
    The jacket was never waterproof, from new it would let water in at the seams and he would end up with wet shoulders as water seeped in at the junction between arms and shoulders.
    He went back to the shop and they just told him nothing could be 100% waterproof.

    It also aged very poorly, and after a year or so he wore through the outer shell at both wrists and in quite a few random spots.
    That was after a year of light wear, nothing crazy.

    Honestly, before seeing his i had considered buying one, not anymore.
    For the money they want the jacket didn't seem to be worth it.
    Not as tough as barbour or other oil skins i have seen.
     
  6. l0fielectronic

    l0fielectronic Practically Family

    Messages:
    566
    Location:
    UK
    To answer your questions...

    1. They've renamed the cougar style jacket a few times, I've not kept up with the fashion brand over the last couple of years, is there a product code on the label/tag inside - maybe try searching for that as they may have given it a different name in the interim.

    The company recently changed hands (again) so they likely are re-branding and renaming again. I read all production is moving back to the UK this years so it will be interesting to see how things go.

    2. I have both the Cougar style jacket from the Pure Motorcyle range, believe its called the Brooklands and the longer four pocket heavyweight Trophy jacket. Have worn both for protection and as a general jacket without issue. The numerous pockets and removable liner are a bonus I find when travelling, so if the weather where I'm going to looks questionable its my go to jacket over the winter. If you are buying it to wear casually I'd recommend trying on so you can remove the armour they come with and see the fit, as by default they are a little more boxy fititng and less tailored than the fashion range.

    As mentioned the Motorcycle range is only generally carried by motorcycle shops here in the UK, I've never seen them for sale in a fashion store. Mine are about eight years old now but all the zips, pockets and poppers all work as new and they both still keep out the rain. I believe the new jackets now have an additonal layer of waterproofing under the wax exterior so should be even more so.

    Price wise they are substantially cheaper than the fashion models, and come in more heavyweight wax. At the same time they don't tend to go on sale at the end of the season for 50% off either so its normally ticket price or second hand, Looks as prices are around the £400 mark now, When I bought mine they were about £100 less. So not at all cheap but I will say despite a lot of wear over eight or so years each the two jackets I have are still in great condition.

    They also introduced some other models to the range that are more 'transitional' between fashion and protection more recently, I don't have any experience of those.

    The Trophy is one jacket I would/will buy again if this one ever wears out or gets lost. In part due to the fact the fit works well for me but also as I find it a great all rounder of a jacket. I'd recomend finding a dealer you can get to and trying on, there are a lot of jackets in this style but the ones in this range are heavier and more solidly made than most I've seen or owned
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  7. l0fielectronic

    l0fielectronic Practically Family

    Messages:
    566
    Location:
    UK

    Was that from the fashion range or the Pure Motorycyle range I wonder? I would guess it would be from the fashion range based on my experience, The fashion jackets used to be well made jackets as well I would say, but I have heard that in the last couple of years they've been using cheaper and thinner materials.

    I can only say I once worn one of mine out in heavy on off rain for 6-8 hours straight for three miserable days and it only started to become damp inside on the third day.

    I bought a brand new wax Barbour International, which is a lighter weight jacket than the Trophy, about five years ago thinking to wear it for a spring/summer jacket and the first time I got caught in a heavy shower all the shoulder seams leaked through in around five minutes. I was surprised and disappointed in that, so can see how your friend would've been too in his jacket. I eventually sold it due to both that and the fact the fit didn't work for me.
     
  8. Justhandguns

    Justhandguns Practically Family

    Messages:
    742
    Location:
    London
    I have recently acquired a Goodwood Sports and Racing Ronnie jacket made by Belstaff (almost new). I remember it was introduced some time in 2013. The jacket itself is made in Italy, probably when they were still under the administration of that Italian company. The jacket is well made, with thick cowhide. But of course, this is an one off model, so it may not reflect the quality of their normal range.
     
  9. Carlos840

    Carlos840 Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,762
    Location:
    London
    It was the regular Roadmaster, still a £600 jacket! You would expect better for that much money!
     
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  10. G'c

    G'c Familiar Face

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    London/Hong Kong

    Thanks the reply l0fielectronic, which is very helpful.

    To be clear, mine is the leather cougar in cognac. The paper tag actually says this ad verbatim: Mod: 76020001 Tes: L81N00650. COUGAR COGNAC. So it's definitely cougar. Basically it's exactly the cougar model but with updated hardware and what not (leather belstaff badge instead of metal, bulkier zips). So i find it weird that there's absolutely zero info on the "updated cougar". I have searched the numbers on the tag but nothing came out....

    And thanks for answering the question re the motorcycle range. I just find it weird that no person has thought about buying the motorcycle range instead for the classic models (for example, leather trialmaster or cougar) , since the motorcycle one seems to be actually more durable. Since the armour is removable, I would imagine a person who does not ride could just have removed the said armour and wear it as a casual jacket. But noted that you said that the fit may be more boxy if armour is removed.
     
  11. Edward

    Edward Bartender

    Messages:
    20,442
    Location:
    London, UK

    Quite possibly. It may be that they do use the same supplier. The BBC some years ago privatised its costume department, and they will work with all comers. Another possibility is, if those shows were made for commercial (anything but the BBC) television after (or to be first screened after) March 2011, product placement is now allowed in those shows, so it's possible Belstaff gave them all a great deal on getting a model they especially wanted to push out there!


    Speedwear produce great stuff, I've heard that from a few folks who own them. My next belted wax jacket will be one of theirs. I've also had good experiences of Barbour, which I consider just as good as Belstaff, but now frequently less than half the price. (Of course, Barbour do no models with armour pockets, but that d'esn't matter if you don't want to ride in it).


    I think it does come down to the Belstaff PM stuff being much harder to find; plus, in the sort of high-end fashion market we're talking about, the fact people paid a lot for it is often seen as a plus.



    Another source I'm considering are Silverman's own brand / GTH house brand jackets - a few of them here, alongside Barbour and Belstaff:
    https://www.silvermans.co.uk/collections/motorcycle/Jackets

    I've not got much experience of their waxed cotton as of yet, but I've handled a fair few of their leathers and been very impressed. Had I not gotten a crazy good used deal on a Scott 618 when I was looking for one, I'd have been buying the GTH Brando instead.
     
  12. Downunder G Man

    Downunder G Man Practically Family

    Messages:
    560
    Location:
    Australia
    I wore Belstaff "wax cotton" jackets to work exclusively from 1982 to 1990(ish)

    Short "blouson/bomber" type in navy and longer "fisherman" types in black. All made in the UK back then

    They were not too ridiculous at the time cost wise , and I would literally wear them to death in 3 years or so.

    Bought my first Eastman Luftwaffe 91 and the Belstaffs just died away. I still have that Eastman Luftwaffe today !
     
  13. Monitor

    Monitor I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    9,894
    Got a decent offer on this supposed Panther jacket but I'm wary. Can anyone please confirm if this is a genuine Belstaff jacket or a fake? I know there's a lot of knock-offs floating around so I'd like to make sure. Thanks!

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  14. Doctor Damage

    Doctor Damage My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,259
    Location:
    Ontario
    Good knock-offs would presumably duplicate all the tags and whatnot. But they won't duplicate high-quality leather. With that in mind, you're a guy who's familiar with leather. Look closely at the photos. Does it look like high-quality leather? I realize this jacket shows a lot of wear but you can probably decide. Another thing is proportions, since knock-offs might have slightly 'off' proportions. That's harder to decide unless you have accumulated a bank of photos. I've got about 1,500 photos of Panther jackets (I have no life, lol) and flipping through them just now it's clear that quality and detailing has varied quite a bit and I honestly can't tell which ones might be fakes (if any) and which ones are genuine.

    This reminds me of the Burberry trench coat thing: there's a ton of people on the forums who insist that most used Burberry coats for sale out there are fakes, but I've got several coats and I don't think any are fakes; if they are, then they're just as good as the real thing. Basically, I've reached the conclusion inre Burberry that there are a lot fewer fakes out there than some people would have us believe, as long as you avoid the up-to-the-minute fashion victim styles which are most likely to be faked. Maybe Belstaff is the same.

    I'd beware of "new" or "nearly new" jackets and stick with weathered jackets at lower prices, since it's unlikely anyone is churning out fakes of heavily weathered Belstaff leather jackets so they can charge $400. No, as with Burberry, they're going to fake new jackets so they can charge $1,000 and aim at those buyers who want a new jacket but can't pay Belstaff's absurd full retail prices.

    I realize none of this answers your question but I think it will help with your thinking process.
     
    Edward likes this.
  15. Monitor

    Monitor I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    9,894
    @Doctor Damage You've actually helped me a great deal. Exactly that - I'm just going to have to see it IRL.

    I was hoping that perhaps there's some kind of a telltale sign that Belstaff fans would notice right off the bat from these photos, something that immediately indicates whether this jacket is fake or not. Like... I don't know, the sleeve logo or something.

    I've seen a Belstaff Panther only once, some dude wore it in a store and regardless of what the internet says about the leather they're is using, I remember to this day that it was one of the most impressive looking jackets I had ever seen. The leather was breathtaking.

    This jacket is suspiciously cheap, that's the problem. I guess I'll just have to see it. I've seen a ton of photos of Belstaff jackets online but not a single one could've prepared me for the real thing. The photos make it look okay. The real thing is so much nicer there's no comparison. If the leather is anything like the one I saw... I guess that'd settle the matter.
     
  16. Doctor Damage

    Doctor Damage My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,259
    Location:
    Ontario
    I flipped through my photos with that in mind and couldn't see any consistency regarding tags, the sleeve logo, or the steel serial number tag. This ain't a Belstaff-friendly forum, so probably only one or two guys are familiar with these - let's hope they chime in.
    wow, I had not expected that. Maybe the price is justified.
    The jacket in your photos definitely looks like it's taken heavy use: (1) the leather shell looks somewhat dried out, (2) there's a ton of folds/wrinkles with the windflap and the pocket flaps have been whacked around, (3) it appears the belt loop on the left side has torn loose, (4) there's a spray of some dirt or something visible on the lining on the left edge of the photo which shows the tag in asian characters, and (4) the four-digit serial code suggests an old jacket since all the ones I've saved photos of over the past couple years have five-digits. Just those things taken together support a low price. As you said, you'll have to see it in person.
     
    Monitor likes this.
  17. Downunder G Man

    Downunder G Man Practically Family

    Messages:
    560
    Location:
    Australia
    There was one of these for sale in a charity shop here in Perth Australia maybe 18 months ago.

    Brand new with tags etc. Too small for me at the time but I was AMAZED that the charity shop was asking $700 Australian

    I thought that was incredibly expensive for a charity/thrift. Next time I visited SOLD so there you go !

    They had been gifted it in a big wardrobe clearout was the official story ( I was a bit suspicious truth be told !)
     
  18. miglan30

    miglan30 Familiar Face

    Messages:
    92
  19. walds11

    walds11 New in Town

    Messages:
    27
    What do you guys this of this Belstaff B-Racer Leather Jacket?

    https://m.shop.nordstrom.com/s/belstaff-b-racer-leather-jacket/5141112

    I like the styling and the buttery soft lambskin. It’s not your typical mall leather jacket as it’s sold at the high-end department stores like Nordstrom, Bloomingdales, etc. I’d probably wait for it to go on sale or find it cheaper somewhere else.
     

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