AVG and other flying jacket books

Edward · Nov 9, 2010

Folks, please forgive me if I'm missing an obivous thread, but I did try to search! Anyhoo, my folks are looking for idea for me for Christmas, and it occurs to me one thing that I would like would be a good book on the history of the USAAF flying jackets. I've had a look around and I can find a few listed online, but I can't really tell from that what's worth buying. I would like something that has a lot of good quality, colour photos (especially of AVG / 23rd jackets, as I have half a mind to replicate one of each of those), but also I'd like something with good quality text, too. I know a lot of photobooks can be just that.... I'd like the balance. If it helps narrow it down, it is specifically the jackets I'm interested in here as opposed to details of the USAAF in general, specific military campaigns, etc.

Silver Dollar · Nov 10, 2010

Hey Edward. You've come to the right place. There are several books that will give you exactly the info you want. One is the Art of the Flight Jacket: Classic Leather Jackets of WWII. It's written by Jan A. Maguire and John P. Conway. The other books they did are Silver Wings, Pinks and Greens: Uniforms, Wings and Insignia of USAAF Airmen in WWII and Gear Up!: Flight Clothing and Equipment of USAAF Airmen in WWII (2 Volumes). The publisher for those books is Shiffer Military History.

The jackets of the CBI i.e. the 23rd FG and other groups connected to them would be more varied than the AVG jackets which were plainer. The AVG jackets were the M422 Navy goatskin, the predecessor of the later Navy G1. They usually had the Blood Chit on the back with either the 2 headed peacock, the AVG insignia or one of the three squadron insignia on the front left side above the pocket. The USAAF jackets in the CBI, i.e. the A2, the B3 etc, had a lot more artwork done on it with more involved blood chits. If you need anymore info, just let me know.

Stearmen · Nov 11, 2010

AVG Uniforms

The definitive book on AVG uniforms is still Pictorial History of the Flying Tigers by Larry Pistole, ISBN-10: 0943522056. Sadly out of print, but they are all over the internet. It has so many photos of uniforms warn by the actual Tigers. They wore several different leather Jackets, China did buy a quantity of Navy M422 jackets and flight suits from Willis & Geiger, but many wore their USAAC jackets.

fenaxton44 · Nov 11, 2010

Edward, I agree with silver dollar, i live in England and have most of the books he mentions and they are very good.

number6 · Nov 11, 2010

'Hell bent for leather ' is a good book on the subject, well worth a look.

Edward · Nov 11, 2010

Thank-you, Gentlemen! A good book is always preferable, I find... not to mention that the internet is surprisingly scant on the sort of pictorial information I would be after. I will make a note of those for the Marlowe parents forthwith.

In terms of actual jackets, I'm patiently watching eBay for suitable candidates (most likely either an Aero or Eastman M442a, unless something else good unexpectedly turns up). For the later CBI stuff, I have a leaning towards one of Aero's 'CBI Field Modified' models, in a russett with gold fleece collar.

Silver Dollar · Nov 12, 2010

Stearmen said:
They wore several different leather Jackets, China did buy a quantity of Navy M422 jackets and flight suits from Willis & Geiger, but many wore their USAAC jackets.

You're right about that, Stearman. The M422a was by far the most common. Both Charles Bond, pilot and Chuck Baisden, armorer wore the USAAC A2 jackets as shown in the Pistole book you mentioned. I'm sure there were other jackets used as well. I just don't have have any pictures of those.

Edward · Nov 18, 2010

Yes, my understanding was that when the AVG men were subsumed into the USAAF from 42 onwards, many of them continued to wear the M422s (were they 422s, or 422as? I can't quite remember the difference) issued them in the AVG by the Chinese Air Force. I've seen photos also of a number of CBI A2s, some standard, others with fleece or mouton added to the collar as a field mod (obviously inspiring the Aero jacket).

Papa M · Nov 18, 2010

Silver Dollar said:
There are several books that will give you exactly the info you want. One is the Art of the Flight Jacket: Classic Leather Jackets of WWII. It's written by Jan A. Maguire and John P. Conway.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. When I looked at this book I decided not to buy it because each jacket displayed failed to denote exactly which brand it was. Lovely collection of photos - but useless information-wise.

Silver Dollar · Nov 19, 2010

It's unfortunate that you couldn't get anything out of the book, Papa M. The book however doesn't deal with the brands and jacket details since its title is the ART of the Flight Jacket. It showcases the jacket painting, various squadron and group patches and not the specific jackets.

Silver Dollar · Nov 19, 2010

Edward said:
Yes, my understanding was that when the AVG men were subsumed into the USAAF from 42 onwards, many of them continued to wear the M422s (were they 422s, or 422as? I can't quite remember the difference) issued them in the AVG by the Chinese Air Force. I've seen photos also of a number of CBI A2s, some standard, others with fleece or mouton added to the collar as a field mod (obviously inspiring the Aero jacket).

I can tell you this. I believe very few (approximately 5, I think) of the AVG went into the USAAF. There is a jacket in the AF museum here in Dayton Ohio that belonged to one of the original AVG members that did go into the AF. His name was George Bailey and was an AVG crew chief. His jacket was definitely a M422 and not an A2. As for as the others I know Charles Bond had an A2,. Chuck Baisden had an A2. chennault had an A2. The others I couldn't tell you.

Stearmen · Nov 19, 2010

Army Air Corp

I can not stress enough if you want to know what the AVG actually wore, find a copy of The Pictorial History of the Flying Tigers by Larry M. Pistole! He has tons of photos, and color photos of many uniforms, some from his personal collection, plus a good history that fills in where the others leave off. Needless to say Chennault and his staff were almost all ex Army Air Corp AAC. And you will see many photos of AAC AVG members in their Pinks & Greens, with Chinese wings and emblems. R.T. Smith, Tex Hill, [who I meant at many air shows wearing his AVG Hawaiian shirt] Arvid Olson, Charles Bond, Duke Headman, Ed Overend, Bill Reed and many others. I think some of the confusion was the Navy M422 jackets issued to all AVG members by China, and for some strange reason some members were told not to bring their uniforms, others were told to just remove any buttons and insignias. Though, on parade, you see more AAC Pinks & Greens then Navy or Marine dress!

Papa M · Nov 19, 2010

Silver Dollar said:
It's unfortunate that you couldn't get anything out of the book, Papa M. The book however doesn't deal with the brands and jacket details since its title is the ART of the Flight Jacket. It showcases the jacket painting, various squadron and group patches and not the specific jackets.

Believe me it was a borderline situation. The book is fantastic and certainly does a terrific job depicting the Art of jackets.

However as the price was £50 I found myself hovering.

Edward · Nov 19, 2010

Silver Dollar said:
I can tell you this. I believe very few (approximately 5, I think) of the AVG went into the USAAF. There is a jacket in the AF museum here in Dayton Ohio that belonged to one of the original AVG members that did go into the AF. His name was George Bailey and was an AVG crew chief. His jacket was definitely a M422 and not an A2. As for as the others I know Charles Bond had an A2,. Chuck Baisden had an A2. chennault had an A2. The others I couldn't tell you.

Interesting! I knew the AVG were subsumed officially into the USAAF, but I hadn't realised there was so little transfer from one to the other in terms of personnel. I suppose the AVG were, officially, ex-military, so only those who volunteered to serve again would have done so? (There was a draft for the US in WW2, wasn't there - so presumably they weren't of the age to be caught by that?).

Stearmen said:
I can not stress enough if you want to know what the AVG actually wore, find a copy of The Pictorial History of the Flying Tigers by Larry M. Pistole! He has tons of photos, and color photos of many uniforms, some from his personal collection, plus a good history that fills in where the others leave off. Needless to say Chennault and his staff were almost all ex Army Air Corp AAC. And you will see many photos of AAC AVG members in their Pinks & Greens, with Chinese wings and emblems. R.T. Smith, Tex Hill, [who I meant at many air shows wearing his AVG Hawaiian shirt] Arvid Olson, Charles Bond, Duke Headman, Ed Overend, Bill Reed and many others. I think some of the confusion was the Navy M422 jackets issued to all AVG members by China, and for some strange reason some members were told not to bring their uniforms, others were told to just remove any buttons and insignias. Though, on parade, you see more AAC Pinks & Greens then Navy or Marine dress!

I'll definitely check out that book, should be able to find it somewhere...

Papa M said:
Believe me it was a borderline situation. The book is fantastic and certainly does a terrific job depicting the Art of jackets.

However as the price was £50 I found myself hovering.

I know what you mean - this sort of book is always pretty pricey over here, even on Amazon. I'm interested enough in the art for its own sake for the book to be something I'd consider, but I would agree that it's not the one for a definitive guide to the jackets themselves, due to the lack of such labelling. Pity, really, but then I suppose the target market was those interested specifically in the art, to whom the jackets themselves are, to an extent, mere canvas. [huh]

Silver Dollar · Nov 20, 2010

Papa M said:
Believe me it was a borderline situation. The book is fantastic and certainly does a terrific job depicting the Art of jackets.

However as the price was £50 I found myself hovering.

When it comes to that kind of price, hovering becomes a fine option. For me being a jacket painter, it's a different story and a different reason for pulling that trigger. Besides, I got my copy at the Air force Museum and being a member there I get a substantial discount which also made it worth while.

thor · Nov 21, 2010

AVG pilot Tex Hill also wore a Navy M-422a jacket with the 23rd FG insignia (a Disney-designed tiger riding a bolt of lightning) on the left front as well as a custom 2-language leather nametag (English and Chinese). There is a photo of him in MacGuire's book.

Silver Dollar · Nov 21, 2010

Tex Hill also came to the AVG from the Navy as did many others. The reason they were told not to bring any uniforms was because they were traveling to China as civilians, not military. They weren't pilots, mechanics and what not, they were "clerks, salesmen, office workers" and the like. Don't forget that the AVG was top secret.

Stearmen · Nov 21, 2010

Pinks & Greens

If you look at the photos of the AVG members receiving their medals from the Chinese at the end of their service, you will notice that the ex Army pilots are wearing their Pinks & Greens, while the Navy pilots are wearing custom made RAF bush jackets with their Navy service peak hats! No they were not issued Pinks & Greens by the forward Army personnel, they brought them to China. The bush jackets look better in this situation. Tex was issued his M422 while in China. Again, buy the book!

Papa M · Nov 21, 2010

Silver Dollar said:
Besides, I got my copy at the Air force Museum and being a member there I get a substantial discount which also made it worth while.

It was at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford airfield here in the UK that I was looking at the book. We had just been looking at the small but impressive display of A2 jackets and had commented that it is a pity that the display does not indicate the Contract (brand) of each jacket. I'm sure that one of our UK A2 experts could advise the museum staff.

Edward · Nov 22, 2010

Papa M said:
It was at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford airfield here in the UK that I was looking at the book. We had just been looking at the small but impressive display of A2 jackets and had commented that it is a pity that the display does not indicate the Contract (brand) of each jacket. I'm sure that one of our UK A2 experts could advise the museum staff.

I suppose it's probably because the average punter will neither know nor care how the jackets were procured and the details of different contracts; likely it simply didn't occur to them to put that sort of information there. I do, however, agree that it's a shame it isn't there for those of us who would be interested.

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