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Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by Bulldozer, Apr 4, 2020.
Curious if the Aero goatskin builds a patina over the years. Anyone have pictures to share? Thanks!
It does. Here's a new and then a some wear on it picture of Rudies modified 1930s HB in russet goatskin.
It creases, but I've only seen wear/a lighter base shade at the hide facing the zipper.
I consider creases and wrinkles as possibly character rather than 'patina'. Most goatskin retains more of a new look much longer than other hides.
That's been my experience. Aero's goat creases, goes extra pebbled in some areas and slightly flattens out under the elbows. Patina I've seen none of.
This would be a fantastic choice if you want a jacket that will stay newish-looking for a very long time. It doesn't even really dull, either.
Patina and break are two different things. The Aero goat will slowly develop break, which is the microscopic separation of the top layer from the layers beneath. Patina on that hide takes longer because its surface doesn't absorb oils and atmospheric dirt as quickly as Horween horse, for example.
People use the term patina imprecisely and always have. Does goat break in and stop looking embarrassing new? Yes, it does. Does the leather fade, crease and grain up? Yep - particularly the older Aero goat which was at least part veg tanned. Chrome tanned goat takes some years to crease up and look lived in. I had a jacket made from the goat hide Aero used 7 or so years ago and it aged faster than most jackets I have owned.
It's true that goat doesn't develop patina the way other hides do, but it does develop a beautiful texture of wrinkles and folds that's unique to it, though it takes years (or decades) to do so. Rabbit recently posted some photos of his goatskins (if I remember correctly) that are beautiful examples if it. I've always been struck by the way dark brown goatskin looks after years of wear.
Do veg tanned leather patina better?
That's subjective. It all depends on what you mean by patina, too. Aero's standard FQ horsehide will do this after heavy use (this is probably at about 8 years):
Goat, though - at least Aero's seal goat - seems to dull a little and crease, but mine doesn't really change much. It looked like this after a while:
Patina is a useless word for leather. It actually refers to a coating of crud that grows on some metals, esp copper or brass. The 'picker' culture is responsible for using the word patina to relabel rust and stains as something virtuous. Now, as far as I can tell, and as HD suggests, patina just means character. Do veg tanned jackets develop character faster? Well, they sometimes look older and more worn faster.
You can have patina on wooden furniture, on stone surfaces, on leather, patina isn't limited to metals...
I would say patina is dirt buildup/natural polishing/fading created from use.
Creases to me are part of the break in process, i agree though that they have nothing to do with patina.
Definition of patina
1a: a usually green film formed naturally on copper and bronze by long exposure or artificially (as by acids) and often valued aesthetically for its color
b: a surface appearance of something grown beautiful especially with age or use
You're right that it has been appropriated by leather - and yes it also used to include stone, wood, etc. Usually it refers to a layer or film added to a surface - fading is the reverse of that. I worked in the area of antiquities (Greek, Roman and Egyptian sculpture and old European furniture) in the 1980's, so this was my thing. But you know what? It doesn't really matter. I do not want to be one of those guys who assiduously guards the virtue of a particular word. I do prefer character and wear because every time I hear patina I hear Mike Wolfe of American Pickers...
Billy Tannery in the UK produces vegetable tanned goatskin in a thickness of 1.2 to 1.4 mm (3 to 3½ oz). They do an undyed leather, which I could be an interesting for a jacket, and I would probably age well.
I suspect that they might supply Aero with their goat suede.
If you want to find out more, their website is:
Hides are available in their shop.
The Guardian have just published an article about them.
vegtan I think if you buy natural undyed raw it will get darker/ soiled with oil, grime, dirt, sun, and oxidates quite fast and if you add touching with your hand it will also burnish the grime and oil onto the leather into a nice sheen, my lanyard belt clip is a testament for that, but if that vegtan is coated with even a light transparent varnish so the pores sealed it will already be enough to slow down "patina", it will still get darker from UV eventually but at much slower pace since it doesn't get soiled with oil and dirt part.
other thing that make leather get "patina" is when it touches metal hardware, it can pick greenish bluish tone from copper/brass, or black from silver/ nickle
"Patina" caused by metal oxidation on the tab and polished a shine on leather wrap on my wallet
A lot less desirable "patina" again caused by oxidation of brass on the underside of leather wrist band probably activated by salt/ acid from sweat
And im not sure what makes permanent dark impression marks here.
Im a bit scared of getting too much surprise "patina" on big leather piece like a jacket.
To me, leather jacket patina is wear areas of use and age that have developed a more polished faded and smoothly blended sheen rather than stark scuffed appearances of abrasive scraped damage. I've posted these photos before but do think this is a good, although possibly extreme, black leather example.....
Denim bros call that "sick fadez"
Probably has to be worn riding long distance under sun exposure to get that.
The beauty of such fades on leather jackets is that they last tens of years (unless we are talking about some accelerated tea core leather invention). On jeans they last a much shorter time if worn with any regularity. Btw - the above pics are also my definition of leather jacket patina.
Examples of what I'd call patina on a leather jacket, though technically, it's what denimheads define as fades.