Perfectly shaped fedoras

[Serial Hero]

I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am), but from my observations hats back then were hand bashed, and didn’t come in some pre-made shape the way most do today. Also, there didn’t seem to be the “rules of hat care”, or at least they weren’t followed as closely.

In the movies;
Bogart almost always placed his hat brim down on a table or chair/couch.

When Clark Gable goes to sleep on the bus in “It Happened One Night” he just leaves his hat on and the brim gets smashed.

Fred MacMurray in “Double Indemnity” just flings his hat onto the couch brim down.

For every guy that holds, and puts on their hat by the brim, there are just as many who just grab the pinch and slam it down on their heads. Sometimes the same guy will alter between the two methods depending on the situation.

There’s a great hat scene in “Captain Midnight” were these four thugs parachute into this field. After they take off their chutes and role them up, all four men pull their hats out of their jackets, give them a quick reshaping and put them on, before going after the hero.

On the other hand, one of the characters in “The Thin Man” really handles his hat with care. Placing it on his head by holding the front and rear of the brim, then takes time to get it positioned just right before going out.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am), but from my observations hats back then were hand bashed, and didn’t come in some pre-made shape the way most do today.

Don't know how that all worked, but I've seen a deadstock (never worn, straight from the factory) "Adam" fedora from the early '40s, and its crown is definitely (and elaborately) pre-blocked.

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[Marc Chevalier]

On the other hand, one of the characters in “The Thin Man” really handles his hat with care.

It could be that the movie wanted to show that this character was a fussy dandy, or worse. In other words, perhaps his careful handling of hats was perceived by that era's moviegoers as something negative.


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[Feraud]

Good points Serial Hero. I too have noticed men in film who toss their hats on a table.
I do not know if hats came bashed or not in the past ( I think both were available) but think the rules of hatcare are based on availablity of hats.
If hats are so prevalent and for sale in every clothing store we would probably tend to be more reckless with them. One knows how easy it is to get a new one. Then again there are always men who are fussy or not about their hat and clothes.

 

[Wild Root]

In the Reliance, released by United Artists, 1934 film "Transatlantic-Merry-go-Round" You'll see Gene Raymond wear some great hats! Clean an crisp, nicely presented... same with Jack Benny who also stars in the picture. That film is great for clothes and hats... music is good too, a rare appearance of the Boswell Sisters is also a treat!

In most films from the 30's to the 40's, the principal actors had nice hats that were well cared for... the supporting cast in most cases didn't. Now, remember that the extras back then did wear hats them selves so, when given a hat from wardrobe, I'm sure they'd shape them the way they wore'em off the set.

=WR=

 

[feltfan]

In the movies;
Bogart almost always placed his hat brim down on a table or chair/couch.

When Clark Gable goes to sleep on the bus in “It Happened One Night” he just leaves his hat on and the brim gets smashed.

Fred MacMurray in “Double Indemnity” just flings his hat onto the couch brim down.

I take it we can also conclude that it is okay to
shoot Elisha Cook Jr., murder is okay as long as there's
a big insurance payoff, and we should pursue married women?

People are shown doing things in movies that we might not
do in real life. In that way, movies are a bad guide to
historical behavior.

I shape some of mine myself, particularly if they come to me
open crown, and try to preserve vintage blocking if I think it
looks cool.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

In that way, movies are a bad guide to
historical behavior.

I agree with you ... but there are times when movies actually influence historic (sartorial) behavior.

.

 

[Pilgrim]

There may be more transfer of hats in westerns. John Wayne had a favorite hat which he wore through many movies (think Cahill US Marshal, El Dorado, Rio Lobo or Big Jake). Sammy Davis, Jr. borrowed it to use in the rat pack film Sergeants 3 (I really enjoyed that one and it's only available on pirated VHS and DVD), and the others in the film jammed it down over his ears so often that it was ruined. Duke had to get a new hat. If you recall, he also had a short-barreled, ivory-handled Colt revolver that he wore through many films - if you watch them in order, you can see the ivory grips turn yellow with age.

 

[Wild Root]

I take it we can also conclude that it is okay to
shoot Elisha Cook Jr., murder is okay as long as there's
a big insurance payoff, and we should pursue married women?

People are shown doing things in movies that we might not
do in real life. In that way, movies are a bad guide to
historical behavior.
QUOTE]

Man, no comparison... murder is wrong and so is pursuing married women... wearing a hat like some one did in a movie is not against the law.

I disagree! The old movies portray how men wore their hats pretty well when compared to old snap shots I've seen. Now, period movies made today are poor examples in most cases... “Road to Perdition” was pretty well done I think same with "The Pianist".

=WR=

 

[Serial Hero]

The costume designers on RtP tried to get things as close as possible to the way they were in the 30’s. They used ether vintage suites and hats, or found materials that matched, as close as possible in weight and pattern, to period samples.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Did the same thing in the '90s gangster film, Billy Bathgate.


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[Atomic Glee]

I disagree! The old movies portray how men wore their hats pretty well when compared to old snap shots I've seen.

I've always thought that this is especially true of the '30s & '40s lower-budget b-movies - with less money to throw around, I'm sure the costumes and such were even closer to "every day" stuff.

 

[Mr. 'H']

In the Reliance, released by United Artists, 1934 film "Transatlantic-Merry-go-Round" You'll see Gene Raymond wear some great hats! Clean an crisp, nicely presented... same with Jack Benny who also stars in the picture. That film is great for clothes and hats... music is good too, a rare appearance of the Boswell Sisters is also a treat!

=WR=

Aww, schucks Rob, this ain't fair!

I've been trying to get a DVD copy of this movie to no avail, not sure if you know this but I've been listening to the album "Shout, Sister, Shout!" about 10 time a week for the last 6 months....

Uhh... guess who recomended that album...?

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Well, Tony, this is cool that you started a thread about this subject… I’m glad that you did.

It's something that I've been thinking about for a while. I guess what sparked it was seeing Capra's "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" in which even the fancy-pants politicians had rough-looking fedoras.

Seeing you in your "Desi Arnaz" Stetson finally made me post the thread. None of my hats are soft enough to do that with, except for my English Scott & Co. fedora, and that's so nice I don't want to wear it often.

On second thought, I do have a wonderfully beat up Barton beaver blend stingy that's badly sun-faded, but the felt is soft and flexible. Got it for ten bucks on eBay, and $5.75 of that was shipping. I didn't know what I wanted to do with it, but it was my size, was part beaver and I didn't want to see it sell for $3.99 (unless I got it, that is! lol )

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Hats are used also in films and on stage as being not only helpful in an actor or actress's defining their character, but are also used for symbolism.

A man who appears on screen and carelessly throws down a hat is showing us something about his character, and throwing down a hat just anywhere is also a symbol of that character's fate.

There is at least one piece of classic literature (I believe it is Lord Jim) where the main character loses himself once he loses his hat. Hats were so essentially a part of one's wardrobe that to lose one would be like losing a part of one's self.

Actors love props that can help them define their characters, and hats can be a big part of it. A Bogie-type fedora is going to give you a toughness and coolness you are not going to have if you wear a straw boater. If you wear your hat like Leo Gorcey did in Dead End, you are also making a statement -- I am a streetwise, funny little punk. Or Art Carney's Ed Norton in The Honeymooners -- a funny, goofy guy and you could tell it the moment he walked onto the set in his hat.

The hat as a symbol is so set in our psyches that we still refer to "good guys" and "bad guys" as wearing white hats or black hats in movie westerns. A hero with a black hat is saying, "watch out -- I am a good guy but I'm pretty damned dangerous."

Fedoras were a bit more subtle than cowboy hats, but the symbolic use is still there.

karol

 

[Matt Deckard]

I think it is interesting to watch many of the Indy fans I know who would tear up if their Indy bash was pushed out of shape, start accepting the tear drop and in some places tapered crowns and different colors. I am a pretty die hard Indiana Jones fan, though my hat always looked like Indy's and not mine... SO I gave up the dimentional brim... just to artificial in looks... besides it was never a style back then.

I myself treat my hats like I treat my shoes... They start off nice, and I take good care to keep the shine, though when the shine starts to go I let it go.

I may get my hat blocked now and again, and always to an open crown... though you can't beat that old worn in look of a well used hat.

 

[TomMason]

Hats are used also in films and on stage as being not only helpful in an actor or actress's defining their character, but are also used for symbolism.

A man who appears on screen and carelessly throws down a hat is showing us something about his character, and throwing down a hat just anywhere is also a symbol of that character's fate.

There is at least one piece of classic literature (I believe it is Lord Jim) where the main character loses himself once he loses his hat. Hats were so essentially a part of one's wardrobe that to lose one would be like losing a part of one's self.

Actors love props that can help them define their characters, and hats can be a big part of it. A Bogie-type fedora is going to give you a toughness and coolness you are not going to have if you wear a straw boater. If you wear your hat like Leo Gorcey did in Dead End, you are also making a statement -- I am a streetwise, funny little punk. Or Art Carney's Ed Norton in The Honeymooners -- a funny, goofy guy and you could tell it the moment he walked onto the set in his hat.

The hat as a symbol is so set in our psyches that we still refer to "good guys" and "bad guys" as wearing white hats or black hats in movie westerns. A hero with a black hat is saying, "watch out -- I am a good guy but I'm pretty damned dangerous."

Fedoras were a bit more subtle than cowboy hats, but the symbolic use is still there.

karol

K.D.

Great insight.

 

[Sefton]

...the rules of hatcare are based on availablity of hats.
If hats are so prevalent and for sale in every clothing store we would probably tend to be more reckless with them. One knows how easy it is to get a new one. Then again there are always men who are fussy or not about their hat and clothes.

I think that is possibly the main reason. Now you can get a ball cap anywhere; Clothing store, convenience store, music shops, cafes, etc. You don't see too many people being especially careful with their ball caps. A fedora has gone from being as common as a ball cap to being a much more rareified thing to be treated carefully. I try to wear my hats in as casual manner as I can without being too careless. I want to make my hat last but I don't want to look like a wax work figure in it...

I love the random-ness of the bash seen in old photographs. I have several neat books that show the reality of everyday hat wearing in the 30s and 40s. They are collections from the Hulton Getty image archives. Lots of pictures of ordinary men and their hats in every shape.

 

[jml90]

Bogie's hat were generally pretty well shaped except his crown is somewhat of a ba***rd child of a bunch of different crowns.

 

[jml90]

Why do I always kill threads?