What if WWII didn't happen

[Fletch]

And a damn good thing they did, too.

It's just awfully tempting to conclude that the present (or future) will be like the past. When we do, we risk doing the wrong things, or the right things for the wrong reasons.

 

[MrBern]

if WWII didnt happen

Spielberg wouldve never won an oscar...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

And OLD SPICE and SPAM wouldn't have become as popular as they did.

.

 

[Cobden]

This is an interesting question, and one I've given some thought to. I'll do it bullet points because it's 1am and I can't be bothered with an essay!
1) Hitler never invades Poland in 1939; Japan stays content with China
-1940-Chamberlain dies, succeeded by Lord Halifax. Britain continues to prepare for war with Germany
1941-Stalin would most likely have started expansionist efforts, focussing on Finland and Poland
1941-Hitler seizes the opportunity and goes to "rescue" Poland, declaring war on Russia
-Chamberlain and Lebrun supply aid to Finland and Poland, but both attempt to avoid war with Russia.
-White Russian Emigres and many anti-communists from France and Britain join Polish and German
-India becomes an independent country
1942/3-Helsinki falls, Finland surrender. Finland now part of the USSR
1943-German forces up to the gates of Leningrad, seige as it was
1944-Germany begins to be beaten back
1946-Russians arrive on the Polish border
-Hitler killed in coup; third reich overthrown. German leaders sue for peace.
-Stalin rejects all peace negotiations
1948-Russia invades Germany
-Britain and France declare war
-Britain and France, both of whom have been preparing for war for quite some time, help the now devestated Germans push back the advance of the equally war damaged Red Army
-Red Army starts to retreat
1950-USSR back to where it started
1953-Stalin dies, Molotov takes control
1955-Allies (Britain, France and Germany) and USSR enter into a cease fire whilst peace negotiations take place; USSR made to become democratic, Germany remains as it was in 1938 (although it does get the Polish corridor). The Caucasus becomes a British Protectorate, whilst the Ukraine becomes a French protectorate.
After the war-
No real cold war, USSR neutered considerably by the peace negotiations, America never participated, so never had the boost it needed to become a real world power, staying isolationist after the death of Roosevelt in 1945 (replaced by Henry Wallace) and the depression having a more lasting effect; as Russia would not have attacked the US, and as there Navy was far, far inferior to the British (and thus unable to attack shipping) there would have been no need for lend lease, indeed the US would not have been involved at all. Britain, though loosing India before they became involved, remained probably the most powerful country, along with France and Japan. The Ukraine rebels against the French in 1961; the Caucasus recieved dominion status in 1960 (I could go into the highly complicated reasons behind Britain and Frances gains here, but suffice to say it has roots in the Russian Civil War). China never became Communist, and never became industrialised, as it continued fighting Japan until about 1962, when it finally surrendered.

Map of Europe looks like this:

 

[Hondo]

War is horrible, not saying it's not but, when you're dealing with powerful governments who want to take over your country with Guns and Bombs, you have two choices to make; One is to open the door and let the roaches in or, two, you can take a stand and fight for your rights! For Democracy and the sacred freedoms your fathers and the fathers before them fought for!

That's what happened in 1941... FDR said NO! And the rest of the American people aided England and Russia and China in defending against the Axis Powers.

=WR=

HOT Damn WR!!! I couldn’t have said it better, wish I had studied history as much you, I agree, now I just hope that all these new immigrants remember where they are, because the future fighting generations will depend on it.

We have Veterans Day coming up this Friday, Thank a vet, support the Troops, Freedom isn’t free, God Bless this country, keep her strong!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Thank a vet, support the Troops, Freedom isn’t free, God Bless this country, keep her strong!

And vote! (Did you, folks?)


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[MrBern]

And OLD SPICE and SPAM wouldn't have become as popular as they did.

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Would lucky strikes have been sucked up by so many american teens?

 

[Hondo]

And vote! (Did you, folks?)


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YES I DID And I hope everyone did :eusa_clap

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Ditto! :eusa_clap


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[Maj.Nick Danger]

I just had a terrible realization.

Nose art would never have been invented!

 

[Lincsong]

Blame it all on Taft!

That's right blame it all on William Howard Taft. If he didn't run for re-election in 1912, Teddy Roosevelt would have trounced Woodrow Wilson and Roosevelt would have had a stronger foreign policy.

 

[Fletch]

Would lucky strikes have been sucked up by so many american teens?

Yes. And the packages would still be green.

 

[RetroModelSari]

I wouldn´t have been born (my grandparents got to know because they got penpals while my grandpa was in war and they kept sending letter via field-post) therefore a lot of other people would have been born cause people wouldn´t have been killed. There wouldn´t have been a big economic boom in the 50s.

 

[Zemke Fan]

Now, I knew what you meant...

.
Nose art would never have been invented!

But I STILL found this to be funny. Had a vision of VARGAS as a tattoo artist doing a little bitty nude on the side of someone's schnazoo.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Well, y_e_a_h,...nose art.
(Thanks for clarifying that for the unenlightened.) lol

 

[Undertow]

Cobden, that is a great list! I think that is quite viable.

In order for there to be no WWII, we would also need to eliminate Nazism. I think we all agree that the Nazi state under the leadership of AH was bent, one way or another, on expansion. I just don't think peace was possible in any fashion.

So no WWII? As long as there I'd like to make bullets here too, to save space.

- First and foremost, we wouldn't have thousands of GI's coming home and going to school on the GI Bill. Less education means less diversification in the job industry, and therefore, less mass industry.
- Fewer families, no baby-boom, fewer people traveling to distant locations. Slower population increase (it would happen, just slower).
-Jet engines developed in the late 60's but not actually implemented in civilian use until the late 70's and early 80's as there would have been "little use" for that kind of travel.
- Interstate system developed in the mid to late 60's, maybe even in the 70's, to meet the rising demands of motorists and industry. Likely would not have been nearly as extensive.
- The rise of corporations (as we know them today) would have been much slower as the playing field would still be dominated by local producers who could provide much more tailored services.
- Nuclear technology would still have been invented, but more than likely relegated to egg headed debates like everything else "unnecessary" and "uncool". It would have likely been harnessed for energy-use and had NO complaints.
- Dehydrated foods, cigarettes, zippers, .30-06 ammo, etc. would NOT have been all-too-familiar to the common man.

The list would be endless. Things may have developed but taken much longer.

 

[John in Covina]

In order for there to be no WWII, we would also need to eliminate Nazism. I think we all agree that the Nazi state under the leadership of AH was bent, one way or another, on expansion. I just don't think peace was possible in any fashion..

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Communisim was already around and their aims are global domination. Chances are the communists would have made the play for Europe at some point and the list of what would be developed would be back on the table.

Also don't forget that the Imperilist Militarists of Japan had already begun their conquest sweep of the Pacific, war was arlready on going. Would they have attacked the US anyway, without the support of Germany?

 

[carebear]

John,

I was going to mention that.

Between Stalinism and Japanese Imperialism we would have been fighting someone by the '50s.

 

[Undertow]

***********
Communisim was already around and their aims are global domination. Chances are the communists would have made the play for Europe at some point and the list of what would be developed would be back on the table.

Also don't forget that the Imperilist Militarists of Japan had already begun their conquest sweep of the Pacific, war was arlready on going. Would they have attacked the US anyway, without the support of Germany?

Good points.

I don't think Communisim would have been as pervasive, at least not until much later. Stalin was still killing his own peasants to make way for state farms and even after he'd finished that, there may not have been a strong push to begin developing a more efficient military. Look at how China has developed. They're not technically out to dominate through force (although, they worry me with their economic policies). Who knows, maybe China and Russia would have become an aligned Super Power together?

And to your second point, I think Japan may have attacked us without Germany as an ally. However, I do believe the US would have mobilized and eliminated Japan within 5 years. Consider that we would not have two seperate theatres of combat and 100% military resources at hand.

I suppose the question follows, "How would THOSE events shaped the world?". I believe my above points would not suffice.

However, the question remains, "What if WWII didn't happen?" and I believe Japanese aggression is included. I admit, I did not specify that in my above points and so I should make the side note that I wrote that list based on NO German and NO Japanese aggression (or simply NO aggression at all).

Great Points John!

 

[John in Covina]

Good points.

Look at how China has developed. They're not technically out to dominate through force (although, they worry me with their economic policies). Who knows, maybe China and Russia would have become an aligned Super Power together? Great Points John!

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Actually China is currently building aircraft carriers and subs at a great rate so they can be the ultimate projection of power in the Pacific very soon. I believe they still have the largest standing army in the world and subscribe to the superior in numbers over tech ideal that the Russians had.