Who watches the WATCHMEN?

Discussion in 'The Moving Picture' started by Doh!, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. Edward

    Edward Bartender

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    I have also heard it said that it will be cut into the film itself on a later DVD / BD release.

    Me too. Hell, I'm going to buy into BluRay for this....

    More timing than anything, but for me they covered all the key issues - Silhoette, Rorschach's suspicions of Veidt in the main. I personally don't hold with the interpretation of Rorschach as being closeted, though I am aware that folks who do were disappointed that it didn't hintg more at that.

    Re the Kennedy assassination..... I'm not ashamed to admit I laughed out loud at the idea of the Comedian being behind it. It's one of the biggest conspiracy theories in history, who shot Kennedy (right up there with the identity of Jack the Ripper), and to my mind it was the conspiracy theories as well as the official 'lone assassin' cover-up that was being satirised here, as opposed to the actual death.

    In terms of violence..... personally, I felt it to be considerably less violent than a lot of stuff I have seen. Where it seems graphic is in its portrayal of the effects of violence. My personal opinion is that the average war movie, Bond movie, Star Wars, Tom and Jerry are all equally as violent as Watchmen, but for whatever reason this is less remarked upon because they do not show the results of their violence. (A much more dangerous thing, in my book, but that's another debate for another day).

    Overall, this is probably the best book-to-film transfer I have seen in terms of staying true to the source material. Inevitably they had to cut it a bit (the Watchmen: The Motion Graphic Novel is complete, and runs to over five hours of footage), but they have remained true to the characters and not sanitised them in any way. I felt that the switching of the giant squid for Doctor Manhattan as a device used by Veidt to bring about world peace was not only acceptable, but actually for me worked rather better. In any case, it was only a change of device rather than a change in plot, and worked perfectly. any other changes were so minor as to not really be worth considering (e.g. Rorschach's direct murder of the kidnapper rather than leaving him to burn to death, the angle grander in the arms rather than slitting the throat, and so on).

    As to the sex scene.... the fact of the sex happening was rather an important plot point. It signifies both the development of Laurie's relationship with Daniel, and how screwed up they are. Screwed up because their first effort at sexual congress was a failure, the retired Nite Owl II feeling "so impotent".... they succeed once they have returned to wearing costumes and playing super hero. Beautifully representing how they are confused, vulnerable people, only capable of truly finding themselves by donning a mask (metaphorically speaking). That said, as to the actual scene..... well, it was considerably (thankfully) less explicit than an awful lot of what I have seen in recent mainstream releases. I do think it went on much too long - I didn't feel any need for it to be any longer than to make it clear what was happening. I certainly wish they had kept it MUCH shorter in favour of covering something much more significant, like the genesis of Rorschach's 'face.'
     
  2. Feraud

    Feraud Bartender

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    Well said Edward. I agree on all points.


    Regarding this -
    I was thinking of the movie Zoolander and the "two lookers who capped Kennedy from the grassy knoll..."
     
  3. K.D. Lightner

    K.D. Lightner Call Me a Cab

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    I recall a short-lived series on TV called Dark Skies, in which aliens were secretly coming to earth with the plan of taking it over.

    The Kennedy assassination, among other things, was depicted as the result of their wanting to cause chaos and havoc in the US. So, the aliens did it.

    As time goes by, we will have more and more of this, I suspect.

    I have to remember that, for a 21-year-old living in today's world, the assassination is as far back as 1917 would have been for me in 1963.

    karol
     
  4. CopperNY

    CopperNY A-List Customer

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    kiltie,

    didn't sound b*tthole at all. valid question.

    for me, i've been watching the guy's head come apart in one movie/show/etc. or another since i was a kid. i think the act itself has become symbolic and has overshadowed his humanity.

    the scene addresses the symbol.
     
  5. Spiffy

    Spiffy A-List Customer

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    How GREAT would Lucy Lawless have been in this? Former action icon, complete badass, only 40 (!). Sorry to be all nit-picky fangirl, but I thought Malin Akerman (Sally Jupiter/Silk Specter II) was the weak link in an otherwise nicely-cast film.
     
  6. UWS Cowboy

    UWS Cowboy One of the Regulars

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    Don't know if this was mentioned in here but when they've hacked into Veidt's computer one of his files is simply titled "BOYS". I thought that was a funny touch. The director's cut will have at least one other reference to Veidt's sexuality which was actually one of Rorschach's funnier lines in the novel.
     
  7. Doctor Strange

    Doctor Strange I'll Lock Up

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    I saw it yesterday. An outstanding, remarkably faithful adaptation (I just recently reread the book); I can't imagine how it could have worked any better in a reasonable length... though I'm definitely looking forward to the eventual extended DVD that intercuts the animated Tales of the Black Freighter. In general, what was telescoped, excised, or changed was for the better. (That the novel's graphic sex and ultra-violence, not to mention the 80s setting and political climate, were preserved was absolutely right.)

    Casting, costumes, music, fight scenes - everything was excellent. And my college/high school-age kids, neither of whom had read it, totally got most of the story. I am therefore bestowing the Peter Jackson LOTR Award for Best Adaptation Rendering a Very Complex Story Understandable to Newbies without Alienating Hardcore Fans on Watchmen!

    And I have to say: as one of the apparently few people who, while I greatly admired The Dark Knight, thought its alleged "seriousness" and "real-world story" aspects were merely confidence tricks - essentially bogus, just the suggestion of such - I was very relieved that Watchmen rendered so many of the book's deeper political/metaphysical themes and complexities well. While the story is still essentially fantasy, the people behind the masks come across as real in a way never before seen in a superhero flick.

    I definitely plan to see it again while it's still in theaters...
     
  8. MrBern

    MrBern I'll Lock Up

    box office

    I havent checked the box office of the movie, but apparently its disappointing. The Screenplay writer is begging fanboys to go out & see it a few more times:

    http://www.hardcorenerdity.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2239098:BlogPost:40658

     
  9. flat-top

    flat-top My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    It dropped 67% in week #2.
     
  10. Edward

    Edward Bartender

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    saw that, yeah.... one of the very, very many beautifully subtle touches that the whole is riddled with. Nice to see a film that credits its audience with the intelligence to spot these things rather than thumping you over the head with them.

    As to box office.... I wonder what the projections were based on? It was never going to do as well as the Dark Knight, for obvious reasons. At least, either way, we're not gonig to be bothered by a wholly unnecessary sequel because somebody thinks there's more money to be tapped with the brand in that way.... [huh]
     
  11. Doctor Strange

    Doctor Strange I'll Lock Up

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    You'd think that a movie making back about half its cost in its first two weeks would not be considered a failure!

    I don't know if it's going to have "legs", but I intend to see it again while it's still in theaters and drag a couple of people... It is going to have good word of mouth, and is likely to do steady business for a while. Between foreign box office and DVD sales, it will do fine.

    Even though I 'm a lifelong mega-movie buff, I don't understand why anybody except the producers/studio/creative team actually care about whether a move is financially successful. In the long run, the important thing is that it's an artistic success - and this picture is!

    Correction: Just checked Box Office Mojo, and it's already made back more than half its cost - $85 mil of $150 mil.
     
  12. MrBern

    MrBern I'll Lock Up

    It must hurt for them to take a backseat to the WITCH MOUNTAIN disney movie.
    ;)
     
  13. Matt Deckard

    Matt Deckard Man of Action

    Just saw the movie though have yet to read the comic. It's refreshing to see that kind of movie on the screen again. I've seen a lot of cleaned up hero movies without violence or nudity that it's high time someone did it in a real world sense, and in a comic book world sense too. It worked. I was surprised to see Dr. Manhattans big swinging zorch on screen yet that's reality when you have a blue glowing naked guy.

    I've heard a lot about how the violence and sex were too graphic in some ways, though that's what this move is supposed to be... Graphic! It all pushed the story ahead. I just wish we go to see more of the first Silk Spectre and more of the 1940's Minutemen.
     
  14. Mahagonny Bill

    Mahagonny Bill Practically Family

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    There is still a lot of material from this movie yet to be released.
    Watchmen: Tales of the Black Freighter & Under the Hood is a DVD scheduled to be released on March 24. From what I have heard, the "Under the Hood" portion is a "60 minutes" style documentary about the history of the Minutemen from the 40's to the 70's, with much more footage of the characters from that era. This material is also supposed to be integrated into the big director's cut DVD in December.

    I think it's interesting that for this movie, the director planned on an extended version DVD release while shooting the original footage. It might influence movie production in the future with the studio and the film makers agreeing have one "commercial" version for theatrical release and a less commercial but more creative version for DVD. This has happened in the past, most noticeably on LOTR, but it was more of an afterthought than an initial plan. For Watchmen, the different versions were planned from the beginning. We will have to see if this type of multiple release works or backfires by saturating the market with too many DVDs for people to follow.
     
  15. The Wolf

    The Wolf Call Me a Cab

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    I saw the movie Sunday night. I look forward to the the DVD release to see what little details I missed. (For instance the machine behind Ozy's workers that had the initials S.Q.U.I.D.. Plus I think when Rorschach said which street corner he saw Dan and Laurie the street signs said a different intersection.) I would also willingly sit through a four hour plus version of the movie since I enjoyed the comic book since 1986.
    I'll probably buy the "...Black Freighter/Under the Hood" DVD on the 24th if only to see the original heroes. Poor Capt. Metropolis was cut out of a lot. :(

    Sincerely,
    The Wolf
     
  16. Edward

    Edward Bartender

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    Well, that's the nature of the entertainment business nowadays, I guess: so focussed on profit that a significant percentage of the audience judge a films' worth by raw profitablity / popularity. :(

    Yes, I've always suspected - given that it doesn't exactly pander to mainstream tastes - that this will be one of those films that will be a steady seller and big success over time via DVD / BD.
     
  17. Chasseur

    Chasseur Call Me a Cab

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    Just saw it. I was pleased with the production. I was fan of the graphic novel, so I had read mixed reviews of the film. I must also add that I was not a fan of Snyder's "300". The opening credits were excellent, the 1980s atmosphere was quite well done, fun music and also excellent portrayals of some characters: Rorschach, Nigh Owl, and the Comedian. There were some weak moments, like the acting of Malin Akerman and Matthew Goode as the second Silke Spectre and Veidt respectively. Also, as some posters have said I know there are limits because of marketing demands, but most of the cast was too young for the parts of the 1960s/70s Watchemen group. Especially Akerman (acting skills might have helped her...). Just my thoughts.
     
  18. Doh!

    Doh! One Too Many

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    I caught this opening weekend and was pretty impressed. Rorschach stole the show by far, and I thought Nite Owl II was nicely fleshed out as well. There were some weak spots (Spectre and Ozy were not the strongest actors) but overall they adapted the material about as best they could.

    No one has mentioned the lack of squid in the end. I thought the movie was a HUGE improvement over the book in this area. I re-read the novel right before seeing the movie, and once again found the ending to be pretty silly. Setting up Dr. Manhattan makes much more sense.

    I'll be getting the superdeluxe DVD for sure.
     
  19. Edward

    Edward Bartender

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    I think most of us did that out of deference to those reading who may not yet have seen the film.... ;) I agree with you, though. The squid thingy works fine in the book, but I do think that the idea of it being Manhattan - in a world where his existence is a given fact and the extent of his powers truly known - is a much more credible threat. It also allowed for a fair simplification of certain aspects of the story, as was necessary given time restrictions, without in any way compromising the integrity of the story - different device than in the book, but in effect the same ending.
     
  20. Tiller

    Tiller Practically Family

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    Since the topic is up I was wondering what character most of your guys identified with in the film? For me it was Rorschach, which makes me wonder if I should be getting psychoanalyzed, but I do love the character, and the fact that he refused to accept the false utopia preferring instead to die then be a part of it. Plus he is the only super hero in a hat so you have to love him for that lol.

    I also think it was an improvement that Night Owl saw Rorshach's demise, and was horrified by it. In the book were he is just lying naked with Silk Specter after his partner in Crime Fighting for years dies outside by his current squeeze ex, well showing no emotion over the murder just bothered me. Night Owl is suppose to be the most normal of the group (both Night Owls actually) and his utter lack of emotion after the murder of his friend (or at least former friend) bothered me almost as much as Ozzy's entire plan.

    Another thing that bothered me about the book though was that in his youth, Rorschach had no problem with the dropping of the atomic bomb, because Truman ordered it, and his father like Truman. Yet when Ozzy basically does the same thing on a larger scale Rorschach is outraged. Is this perhaps a plot hole? Something that Moore didn't really flush out correctly at the time? I've tried finding a place were he may answer that question, but I haven't ever noticed it even being asked before.
     

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