Ask a question, get an answer

[belfastboy]

Ok milliners, how do I straighten out ribbon that has been twisted, folded or creased?

View attachment 515552

I would give it a very light misting of water and using a press cloth with a steam iron and gently press back to shape.

 

[Granville]

I just bought a "Harvard '40" (Adam Hat). Anyone know why that model name came into existence, i.e., is it commemorating something? Also, anyone know when these models were produced? So far the only notable things I've found about that year at Harvard are 1) the school administration came out as pro-war that year, bucking the "isolationists", and 2) Jack Kennedy graduated. But neither of these seem to be the reason for Adam to name a hat. Certainly the JFK connection would be spurious, given his inauguration is often cited as the beginning of the end of the fedora. Not unlike Clark Gable heralding the demise of the undershirt in "It Happened One Night."

 

[Frunobulax]

I just bought a "Harvard '40" (Adam Hat). Anyone know why that model name came into existence, i.e., is it commemorating something? Also, anyone know when these models were produced? So far the only notable things I've found about that year at Harvard are 1) the school administration came out as pro-war that year, bucking the "isolationists", and 2) Jack Kennedy graduated. But neither of these seem to be the reason for Adam to name a hat. Certainly the JFK connection would be spurious, given his inauguration is often cited as the beginning of the end of the fedora. Not unlike Clark Gable heralding the demise of the undershirt in "It Happened One Night."

Normally, a number is associated with the retail price of a hat, such as Stetson 25 or Mallory Ten. So I would assume you have a $40 hat. However, it's hard to tell anything without seeing the hat. A 40 dollar hat in the 40s or 50s would be a very nice hat.

You could also try looking through the Adam hat thread. Perhaps there is a reference to this model.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/adam-alley.18380/

 

[Granville]

Normally, a number is associated with the retail price of a hat, such as Stetson 25 or Mallory Ten. So I would assume you have a $40 hat. However, it's hard to tell anything without seeing the hat. A 40 dollar hat in the 40s or 50s would be a very nice hat.

You could also try looking through the Adam hat thread. Perhaps there is a reference to this model.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/adam-alley.18380/

Thanks, but the logo is "Harvard '40" (note the apostrophe), indicating the year. There's a cool site with pics of Adam Hats' liners, listed by date order, indicating a nineteen-sixties era and calling said logo "Plaza/Harvard '40" (http://www.thehatmovement.co.uk/Adam/AdamLiners/Site/Adam Liners.html).
I've only seen/found two here at the lounge, one of which was squelched into a pork-pie.
Clearly an obscure model.
Here are some pics:

 

[Frunobulax]

Thanks, but the logo is "Harvard '40" (note the apostrophe), indicating the year. There's a cool site with pics of Adam Hats' liners, listed by date order, indicating a nineteen-sixties era and calling said logo "Plaza/Harvard '40" (http://www.thehatmovement.co.uk/Adam/AdamLiners/Site/Adam Liners.html).
I've only seen/found two here at the lounge, one of which was squelched into a pork-pie.
Clearly an obscure model.
Here are some pics:
View attachment 517948 View attachment 517949

I still think it's a $40 hat. Especially since it's 60s. The pics are kind of blurry. Is that a Cavanagh edge?

That's a fairly useful site for the Adam logos, thanks for the link. If only we could see that tag in the photo on that site, we could see the price.

Any other markings on the sweatband or labels behind it?

 

[Granville]

That's a fairly useful site for the Adam logos, thanks for the link. If only we could see that tag in the photo on that site, we could see the price.

Any other markings on the sweatband or labels behind it?

Assuming the hat isn't infested with lice, I got a steal. The seller's photos are not true to color, but reveal at least one moth hole, and there was some confusion over the color, i.e., it was originally listed as "black" but after I asked it was changed to "grey" while the photos look brown. But the price was so good (way under forty!) I decided to send it to my brother (not my size), and not ask too many questions. When he gets it I'll learn what color it really is (assuming grey -- gangster light or dark slate). And I'll have him peek behind the sweat. But back to that logo, you may not see it, but the "40" is preceded by an apostrophe so I'm reasonably sure it's not a price.
Sweat is stamped with their crest and the words Adam Premier Quality. No store stamp, but Adam had its own stores.
And I can't tell from the photos if it's a Cavanagh or an overwelt. Since Adam is supposed to be a budget brand, I'm guessing there will be visible stitches on the overwelt.

 

[Frunobulax]

Assuming the hat isn't infested with lice, I got a steal. The seller's photos are not true to color, but reveal at least one moth hole, and there was some confusion over the color, i.e., it was originally listed as "black" but after I asked it was changed to "grey" while the photos look brown. But the price was so good (way under forty!) I decided to send it to my brother (not my size), and not ask too many questions. When he gets it I'll learn what color it really is (assuming grey -- gangster light or dark slate). And I'll have him peek behind the sweat. But back to that logo, you may not see it, but the "40" is preceded by an apostrophe so I'm reasonably sure it's not a price.
Sweat is stamped with their crest and the words Adam Premier Quality. No store stamp, but Adam had its own stores.
And I can't tell from the photos if it's a Cavanagh or an overwelt. Since Adam is supposed to be a budget brand, I'm guessing there will be visible stitches on the overwelt.

Oh, I see it. It could have a dual meaning, as well. But I'm not sure what other meaning there would be. It's not 40s style. Or it could be a name marketing came up with because they thought it sounded good.

Since it's a 60s hat and likely "high end" - at least for the 60s - it could still reflect the price. There are several currently listed on eBay and a few other places and a few of them show felted edges, indicating to me it's a higher priced hat for the time.

 

[marzony]

Two questions:

1:

I have two similar style of hats (from Optimo), difference only in material. They are both labeled same size standard ovals, but I have noticed that the other one is more snug/sits slightly more above on my head. If I try to pull it down to the level where the ”larger” fit one sits at, I can definitely feel tightness.

Is it normal that there is some variation even within the same sizes? I wonder if it should be this noticeable? I tried to measure (clumsily) with tape measure the width and length of the hat inside, and they look approximately same.

The difference in size/fit doesn’t disturb that much, as they both fit well on my head.

2:

Can the brim be straightened easily by, say, a local milliner? I don't want to send hat to be serviced only to get brim straightened.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Two questions:

1:

I have two similar style of hats (from Optimo), difference only in material. They are both labeled same size standard ovals, but I have noticed that the other one is more snug/sights slightly more above on my head. If I try to pull it down to the level where the ”larger” fit one sits at, I can definitely feel tightness.

Is it normal that there some variation even within the same sizes? I wonder if it should be this noticeable? I tried to measure (clumsily) with tape measure the width and length of the hat inside, and they look approximately same.

The difference in size/fit doesn’t disturb that much, as they both fit well on my head.

2:

Can the brim be straightened easily by, say, a local milliner? I don't want to send hat to be serviced only to get brim straightened.

Yes, this is normal. I’ve had custom hats made using the same block and the same band block made by the same hatter that have fit very differently. I mean right from the hatter they fit differently. Add to that the inconsistent degree of shrinkage over the years and it’s completely normal to see variations on how hats fit. The differences are usually minor, but sometimes it’s quite noticeable.

 

[Bill Hughes]

Two questions:

1:

I have two similar style of hats (from Optimo), difference only in material. They are both labeled same size standard ovals, but I have noticed that the other one is more snug/sights slightly more above on my head. If I try to pull it down to the level where the ”larger” fit one sits at, I can definitely feel tightness.

Is it normal that there some variation even within the same sizes? I wonder if it should be this noticeable? I tried to measure (clumsily) with tape measure the width and length of the hat inside, and they look approximately same.

The difference in size/fit doesn’t disturb that much, as they both fit well on my head.

2:

Can the brim be straightened easily by, say, a local milliner? I don't want to send hat to be serviced only to get brim straightened.

1: Yes it is normal. The good news is that wearing the hat will loosen/stretch the headband.

2: Not sure what you mean by straightened? Do you mean flat? If so you can do it yourself with a steam iron. Be sure to use a towel between the iron and the brim. If you mean changing the shape of the brim to even it out I would again suggest using steam. Steam the brim and shape it as you want. Let it air dry and you’re done.

 

[marzony]

1: Yes it is normal. The good news is that wearing the hat will loosen/stretch the headband.

2: Not sure what you mean by straightened? Do you mean flat? If so you can do it yourself with a steam iron. Be sure to use a towel between the iron and the brim. If you mean changing the shape of the brim to even it out I would again suggest using steam. Steam the brim and shape it as you want. Let it air dry and you’re done.

2. I meant to straighten brim, as I put it on uneven surface and the brim got slightly "wonky", so evening out is what I am looking for! I'll look into steaming, thanks!

 

[DanO]

Heading to Texas Thursday for a wedding. Is the Hatco (Stetson) outlet store still in operation in Garland?

Well outlet today, a little disappointed, lots of hats mostly cowboy did get out with a C-Crown black Dobbs 2 5/8 brim shipped home to San Jose for $100 all in all a good day.

 

[John the Swede]

When you are dealing with an older open road Stetson 3X beaver quality, the kind with the open road bash like if you picked one off the bay or Etsy are you able to easily change the bash. Are those malleable? I've never had one before.

​

 

[Steve1857]

When you are dealing with an older open road Stetson 3X beaver quality, the kind with the open road bash like if you picked one off the bay or Etsy are you able to easily change the bash. Are those malleable? I've never had one before.

​

As always, open the crown and steam is then your best friend.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

When you are dealing with an older open road Stetson 3X beaver quality, the kind with the open road bash like if you picked one off the bay or Etsy are you able to easily change the bash. Are those malleable? I've never had one before.

​

That’s a loaded question. What are you considering a vintage 3X OR? When I think of a vintage 3X OR I think of a hat that didn’t come with any sort of crown crease and the owners could shape them the way they prefer. The cattleman’s crease as pressed in by the factory, is of the “modern era” in my mind; although, these have been around for over 50 years and many machine pressed crease 3X ORs are sold as vintage hats. The crowns with a machine pressed crown can be re-shaped, but it’s more difficult and you’ll most always have ghost lines from the old crease. The 3X was made in both the vintage open crown and the modern pressed in crease, so a lot depends on the age of your “vintage” OR.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

When you are dealing with an older open road Stetson 3X beaver quality, the kind with the open road bash like if you picked one off the bay or Etsy are you able to easily change the bash. Are those malleable? I've never had one before.

​

Simple answer without all the mumbo jumbo: yes.

 

[John the Swede]

Simple answer without all the mumbo jumbo: yes.

Thanks

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thanks

There are a lot of real world caveats. Most of the “vintage” Open Roads sold on eBay etc. are not easily reshaped. Some questions don’t lend themselves to simple answers.

 

[M Hatman]

When you are dealing with an older open road Stetson 3X beaver quality, the kind with the open road bash like if you picked one off the bay or Etsy are you able to easily change the bash. Are those malleable? I've never had one before.

​

I have highlighted the relevant text of the OP.

The answer depends entirely on whether the crease is pressed in or not and if the hat is sized ( starched) like a western.......

Regardless of age if the crown is stiff (can be the case on even true vintage) and the crease is pressed in.....then you will have a very very difficult time changing it, period. And there will VERY likely be a ghost of the old crease (even harder on light color felts).

For softer crowns with a pressed crease it is easier, but still difficult.

The best chance stands with a hat that was origionally sold open crown (no crease) that has been hand creased only.

But even they can be difficult depending on again the sizing, as well as how long has the crease been in the hat, how worn, how dirty the hat is (as with all hats). And again you can still get ghosting (worse with the light colors) .

Re-creasing vintage hats is not ever necessarily easy as so many factors enter the picture (including your expectations).

Your best bet is to buy from a reputable dealer that knows hats, and/or ask a LOT of questions.........

Your real question had no simple answer......any hat you end up with can disappoint from the moment you decide to change it.......

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I have highlighted the relevant text of the OP.

The answer depends entirely on whether the crease is pressed in or not and if the hat is sized ( starched) like a western.......

Regardless of age if the crown is stiff (can be the case on even true vintage) and the crease is pressed in.....then you will have a very very difficult time changing it, period. And there will VERY likely be a ghost of the old crease (even harder on light color felts).

For softer crowns with a pressed crease it is easier, but still difficult.

The best chance stands with a hat that was origionally sold open crown (no crease) that has been hand creased only.

But even they can be difficult depending on again the sizing, as well as how long has the crease been in the hat, how worn, how dirty the hat is (as with all hats). And again you can still get ghosting (worse with the light colors) .

Re-creasing vintage hats is not ever necessarily easy as so many factors enter the picture (including your expectations).

Your best bet is to buy from a reputable dealer that knows hats, and/or ask a LOT of questions.........

Your real question had no simple answer......any hat you end up with can disappoint from the moment you decide to change it.......

You speak the truth.

Here’s a 40ish years old 5X Beaver that spent its life with a version of the cattleman’s crease. After a couple days of steam and the use of an undersized aluminum hat block I was able to get most of the old crease out, and what was left mostly disappeared when I reshaped it. However, some of the ghost lines from the old crease still remain and always will. Even if the hat is stripped a re-blocked, the differences in sun bleaching and soiling means some residual of the original crease will remain. I suppose one could re-block it inside out and pounce it and maybe not have have any indication of the original crease remain, but that’s a lot of effort and time and beyond most of us.