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Foyle's War UK WW II period police drama

Spitfire

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,078
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark.
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Thank you gentlemen for your most intersting comments on a series some of us like.:p
 

H.Johnson

One Too Many
Messages
1,562
Location
Midlands, UK
I think that liking something and saying that it is historically accurate are two completely different things. I was a child in the same part of England in the 1940s and can remember the detail things (like my father's and uncles' clothes, the furniture of ordinary homes and what took place in the streets) with the accuracy of a child's memory.

Added later - and my father was a policeman!

Foyle's War may be entertaining drama, but as an accurate reconstruction of the place and period, it doesn't impress me that much. I therefore feel I have a right to comment when Loungers talk of its accuracy, but I wouldn't dream of trying to spoil anyone's enjoyment of it as a piece of fiction.

If this upsets anyone, I apologise unreservedly but will continue to feel that I have a right to do it.
 

Creeping Past

One Too Many
Messages
1,567
Location
England
Although I understand and appreciate that staged dramas offer a version of the past, down to the level of clothing and haircuts, I'm with HJ on this.

I'm starting to make similar comments in respect of clothing in TV dramas and films set in the 1960s to the 1990s. Sometimes, these bother the people I'm with. But for the life of me I can't remain silent.

Going even further off-topic, I remember commenting on the inauthenticity of 'punk' clothing in TV dramas and movies from the late 1970s to early 80s. I used to call them 'Telly punks'. They used to sneer a lot and wear brightly coloured garments and pristine plasticy leather jackets. The punks I knew wore grimy leather painted with grisly band names and their clothing might have been brightly coloured when new, but that time was long, long gone.
 

Goodtimes

New in Town
Messages
6
Location
California
Foyle's War (PBS TV Series)

If you're familiar with the WW2 detective series, Foyle's War, you already know that the actor who plays the lead character of Christopher Foyle is named Michael Kitchen. I'm interested in his clothing and, in particular, his hat which resembles a fedora but looks like it has a higher crown and flatter, stiffer brim than what we typically see in a Bogart-type gangster movie. Can anyone shed some light on who makes his hat, as well as anything regarding his great suits and overcoat? If you're unfamiliar with the series there are many clips available on YouTube.


Thank to all for a great website,
Goodtimes.
 

Dewhurst

Practically Family
Messages
653
Location
USA
I'm afraid that I will be more or less useless here as I have seen ALL of Foyle's War but have no information of the sort you are requesting.

However, I can tell you that his hat IS a fedora but as you said it is not of the typical Bogart style (Bogart wore quite a few fedoras with different styling as well). Although, since it is the UK during WWII they may call it a Trilby. Not sure.

Hope someone can help you out here.
 

elvisroe

A-List Customer
Messages
319
Location
Sydney, Australia
Great show, nice hats, weird bash!
I copied it on my Fed iv a few months ago while watching an episode. The crown on the fed was certainly higher than the ones they wear.

The bash seems to be a long deep centre-dent that, rather than sloping back like the "tug-boat",remains the same depth from front to back. When Foyle carries it in his hand he often flattens the crown lengthways which accentuates that "twin peaks" tapered look when he puts it on.
As in the photo the brim is worn completely flat, although I noticed in the most recent series it seems to be flopping down a bit more at the front these days.
 

kaosharper1

One Too Many
Messages
1,304
Location
Pasadena, CA
As you can see from his assistant standing in the back, the flat brimmed look is common on the show. I wondered if that was a common working class look for hats in the UK during the war.

I also copied this bash with my DM Akubra Adventurer, but not the brim. That is the way the brim looked on my Camptown Metro when I first received it unbashed. Flat as a pancake. I think it would take a lot of stiffener to keep it that way.

I don't remember seeing any Art Fawcett hats with that type of brim. Which style are you thinking of? I have four and they're all flanged.
 

barrowjh

One Too Many
Messages
1,398
Location
Maryville Tennessee
Not a snap brim.

The flat brim would result from buying a hat (or ordering the hat) without a snap brim - a snap brim will not lay flat. That is a primary difference between the Stetson Stratoliner and Open Road; both were a cross between a typical cowboy hat (thin ribbon) and a fedora (not a 4 inch brim, not heavy felt). The Stratoliner had a snap brim (typical fedora look, and flanged to angle back) and the Open Road was flat brim (more typical of cowboy hats, crown flanged straight up). As time wore on, I think customers eventually ordered both styles with both brim treatments such that there may be some snap-brim open roads out there.

I see something more interesting in the one photo - I read here that today's cattleman's bash (or LBJ bash) was originally called the Alpine bash. On a hat with a dome-like crown, it would have resulted in twin peaks at the center of the hat (Gus?) and with a flattened crown it might have looked almost like the pic that Kabuto posted (except that the Alpine would not have been pinched in the front). Maybe this is one permutation of the many slight variations, as elvisroe pointed out - if the character is straigtening it out even-height front-to-back, that would lead to a cattleman type bash, though a bit more sharply pinched all along the ridge in comparison to the smooth rounded dual ridges we are accustomed to seeing in typical cowboy hats.
 

CRH

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,088
Location
West Branch, IA
barrowjh said:
...
I see something more interesting in the one photo - I read here that today's cattleman's bash (or LBJ bash) was originally called the Alpine bash. ...

I had not read that.

arte.jpg
 

duggap

Banned
Messages
938
Location
Chattanooga, TN
kaosharper1 said:
As you can see from his assistant standing in the back, the flat brimmed look is common on the show. I wondered if that was a common working class look for hats in the UK during the war.

I also copied this bash with my DM Akubra Adventurer, but not the brim. That is the way the brim looked on my Camptown Metro when I first received it unbashed. Flat as a pancake. I think it would take a lot of stiffener to keep it that way.

I don't remember seeing any Art Fawcett hats with that type of brim. Which style are you thinking of? I have four and they're all flanged.
I have seven and four are raw edge. The flange is just not real distinct. Don't get me wrong, I love the look. My LaSalle has practically no curl at all and it is my favorite. When the brim is finished they have a good strong snap to them but the raw edge really don't snap. Again not complaining because his raw edge brims are all my favorites.:p
 

barrowjh

One Too Many
Messages
1,398
Location
Maryville Tennessee
Answering CRH

I meant on FL Hats bb, not this string. I cannot remember which string I read that on; it was a journey into the history of the cattleman's bash that has become so popular today - in fact, so popular amongst so many that I despise it, it is almost like a baseball cap worn backwards, just overdone - no individuality. I read that before there was a server meltdown, and that occurred over a year ago, so that string might be lost now.

According to my memory (I am over 50, so be forgiving), it was partially attributed to a bluegrass band that drew media attention for a performance in NYC in the 1930s (was it the 40s? - was it Washington DC?), and to look nice for the stage, in addition to their other clothing, all bought Open Roads bashed in the Alpine - appropriate for a 'mountain music' band. In those days, 'country' was combined with 'western' for 'country and western' music, and blue grass pick'n was part of that genre. There were photos that received wide media attention, and from that point forward, that hat bash became associated with 'country and western' and everything that went with it; by the 1960's (LBJ) it was really taking hold as the new thing for western - up to that time (check out cowboy flicks from that era, try to find a young John Wayne in a cattleman's crease), telescopes, gus, open crown, bowlers, and pinched fronts hat ruled. Since that time, the Alpine name is forgotten and it is called LBJ or cattleman's, with various slight differences - hi bull rider, etc.

I have since looked at photos online from a national archive of photos taken during the late 1800's cattle-drive period (which only lasted about 20 years), and I never saw a cattleman-equivalent bash in any of those photos. Sombreros, telescopes, bowlers, open crown, newsboy type caps, and an occasional fedora style, but I did not see any that looked like today's 'cowboy' hats. So, I continue to disdain the cattleman's crease - I consider it a 20th century creation, not genuine to the cattle-drive period it is supposed to represent.

Please correct me if I am wrong - am only trying to replay from memory.
 

elvisroe

A-List Customer
Messages
319
Location
Sydney, Australia
kaosharper1 said:
As you can see from his assistant standing in the back, the flat brimmed look is common on the show. I wondered if that was a common working class look for hats in the UK during the war.

Our local Englishmen may correct me, but according to my Pommy gandfather, hats were a very distinctive class symbol. He, as a proud 'working man', always wore a flat-cap while his father, who was of a more middle-class occupation, would wear a brimmed hat.

You certainly see this on the show. Most characters wear cloth caps while the detectives and more senior members of the community wear the fedoras, Derbies etc.
 

elvisroe

A-List Customer
Messages
319
Location
Sydney, Australia
An interesting view from an ITV review of the show...

"Dammit, man, we're not colonials. Foyle wears his trilby perfectly straight on his head, as if it had been carefully lowered with shouted instructions from a crane. The tilt of the hat was the only individuality permitted men then and Kitchen (Foyle) is careful to allow himself none at all."
lol
 
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