Is dress uniform out the door

[Matt Deckard]

I know we have several Military lads and lasses in the crowd. I heard recently that the navy is going to finally do away with the Cracker Jack outfit. Is this true?

I don't want to see our troops romping around in camo all day long. I know it is probably going to be inevitable, I just love seeing the pics of the days when soldiers walked about proudly in their dress blues or pinks and greens. NOw they go casual everywhere.

 

[Cobden]

Canada has already, I believe, abolished square-rigging and replaced it with a fore and aft uniform the same as the officers...

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Didn't they try to do this once before in the 70s?

 

[boomerchop]

Yes they did,

During the Zumwalt era the Navy went to a double breasted uniform for everyone. Then they went back to the crackerjacks during the 80's(?). Now they are revising the work uniform, and possibly the dress uniform, though as I have been retired for almost 12 years, I'm not really sure what is going on. I always wished they'd bring back the service dress khaki for officers, but they never did. I agree, I like to see the military dressed up. I'll be wearing service dress "choker" white to the Memorial Day ceremonies this year.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I know we have several Military lads and lasses in the crowd. I heard recently that the navy is going to finally do away with the Cracker Jack outfit. Is this true?

I don't want to see our troops romping around in camo all day long. I know it is probably going to be inevitable, I just love seeing the pics of the days when soldiers walked about proudly in their dress blues or pinks and greens. NOw they go casual everywhere.

Here ya go. AND you can forget about ever seeing service members dressed up out in town once they get out of their A/Tech schools. I know when I joined in 1988, I worked hard to get good grades so I wouldn't have to wear it. In this day and age, it's just not advisable to wear it for fear of some knucklehead coming up to you and calling you a baby killer or worse, assaulting you. A most unforunate fact of life. However, walking through a airport in BDU's will get you lots of hand clapping and freebies galaore. Anyhow, no mention is made of getting rid of the Crackerjacks, but in the future they are looking to bring back the Service Dress Khaki like what my dad is wearing here during WWII when he was a CWO2

DR

Pics here: http://www.navy.mil/list_all.asp?id=22519

Uniform Concepts Approved
Story Number: NNS060302-11
Release Date: 3/2/2006 12:35:00 PM



By Chief Journalist Michael Foutch, Task Force Uniform Public Affairs

WASHINGTON (NNS) -- Outfitting the Sailor of the future took another step forward last week when Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Mullen approved plans for a single working uniform for all ranks and a year-round service uniform for E-6 and below Sailors.

Based on recommendations made during a comprehensive briefing by Task Force Uniform Feb. 24, Mullen agreed to production of both a BDU-style working uniform for all Sailors E-1 to O-10 and a more practical, year-round service uniform to withstand day-to-day classroom and office-like environments where the service uniform is typically worn.

“These are good uniforms, designed to support the modern Sailor,” said Mullen. “Durability, safety, ease of wear and cleaning were all factors that weighed heavily on my mind, as did, quite frankly, the survey data and the opinions of wear testers. This wasn’t a popularity contest by any stretch, but we would have been foolish not to consider the opinions of the men and women who will wear these uniforms.”

The BDU-style working uniform, designed to replace seven different styles of current working uniforms, is made of a near maintenance-free permanent press 50/50 nylon and cotton blend. Worn with a blue cotton t-shirt, it will include an eight-point cover, a black web belt with closed buckle, and black smooth leather boots, with black suede no-shine boots for optional wear while assigned to non-shipboard commands.

“When I walk down the piers, I see a Sailors standing watch as a pier sentry in January and it's 30 degrees and freezing rain,” Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (SS/AW) Terry Scott said. “You have to ask yourself, does the uniform that we currently issue protect us, and the answer is no.”

To meet the all-weather requirement, the new working uniform will include several cold weather options, such as a unisex pullover sweater, a fleece jacket, and a parka. It will also be made in three variants, all in a multi-color digital print pattern: predominately blue, with some gray, for the majority of Sailors and shipboard use; and a woodland digital pattern and a desert digital pattern for Sailors serving in units requiring those types of uniforms.

“The intent of TFU always has been to give our Sailors a uniform in which they can work comfortably everyday and is more appropriate for the joint environment in which we operate,” Scott said. “Even better, we’ve created a uniform that’s also easier to maintain, is longer lasting, helps reduce the size of the sea bag, while at the same time recognizing the tradition and heritage of serving in the Navy.”

The service uniform for E-6 and below is comprised of a short-sleeve khaki shirt for males and an over-blouse for females, made from a wash and wear 75/25 polyester and wool blend, with permanent military creases, black trousers for males with belt less slacks for females and optional belt less skirt, and a black unisex garrison cap. Silver anodized-metal rank insignia will be worn on shirt/blouse collars and cap. The service uniform will also include a black relaxed-fit Eisenhower-style jacket with a knit stand-up collar and epaulets, on which petty officers will wear large, silver anodized-metal rank insignia. Those entitled to wear gold chevrons will continue to wear gold chevrons on the large metal rank insignia on the jacket.

“In our research, we found the group most dissatisfied with their present uniforms were E-6 and below,” Scott said.

The manner of wear for both of these new uniforms remains under development by TFU and will not be effective until guidelines on prescribed wear are incorporated in the Navy Uniform Regulations.

“There are a lot of concerns about the manner of wear for the working and service uniforms that we need to address, so we have a smooth transition when the time comes,” TFU Director CNO-Directed Command Master Chief Robert Carroll said.

The working uniform and service uniform are not expected to be available for purchase and wear until late fall of 2007, after which they will be introduced to Recruit Training Command and eventually distributed to the rest of the fleet. Details on when the uniforms will be available for purchase and wear at specific geographic locations will be released at a future date.

Until the new uniforms are available for wear, all existing uniform regulations will apply. During the expected two-year transition period, Sailors will be required to maintain a complete inventory of sea bag items with each reflecting a professional appearance.

“We want our Sailors to keep a professional appearance,” Carroll said. “We don’t want people wearing worn-out uniforms because they’re waiting for the new ones to hit the shelves.”

Once the working and service uniforms are adopted, Sailors will receive a uniform maintenance allowance appropriate to support purchase and wear.

The announcement of the new uniforms, Carroll said, is the culmination of a three-year project that began with the charter of Task Force Uniform to deliver a proposal to reflect the requirements of a 21st century Navy. An analysis of a fleet-wide survey conducted during the summer of 2003 led to the creation of concepts for working and service uniforms for a wear test and another fleet-wide survey last summer.

“I just can’t say enough about how meticulous and thorough TFU Director Master Chief Rob Carroll and his team approached their work,” stressed Mullen. “The process they established and maintained was rock solid -- measured and analytical. They looked at hundreds of options, studied countless pattern and color designs, and fretted over every minor detail, from button style to stitching. I am enormously proud of their effort, and every Sailor can be, too.”

The work of TFU will not stop. Next on the agenda is to evaluate additional uniform options, such as reviving the traditional Service Dress Khaki uniform for chiefs and officers, conducting research on the feasibility, cost and distribution of a service-wide physical training uniform, consider adoption of a ceremonial cutlass for chiefs, and investigate adopting a more practical service-wide, all-weather coat that would provide a better military appearance.

“The bottom line for me in making these decisions,” said the CNO, “is culture. Uniforms reflect our culture -- who we are -- what we stand for. I've said all along that no matter which way we go, I want Sailors to look like Sailors. I really believe these uniforms pass that test.”

For related news, visit the Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Navy NewsStand page at www.news.navy.mil/local/mcpon/.

 

[Baggers]

...I've said all along that no matter which way we go, I want Sailors to look like Sailors. I really believe these uniforms pass that test.”

Then put 'em back in dungarees and pea coats wearing "dixie cup" hats. Call me old fashioned, I guess.

I understand the need for desert and woodland cammo patterns for working onshore in combat situations, but why the heck do they need a blue digital cammo for shipboard use? Who are they going to need to hide from on a ship?

And, casting my cynical net wider, why does each service need their own specific cammo and BDU pattern? I read recently that the Air Force is currently testing a new blue tiger stripe pattern. Wouldn't it save an awful lot of money if they'd just pool their resources and come up with one pattern of BDU with one pattern of camouflage (woodland and desert) to be worn by everybody? Oh wait, I forgot. That "interservice rivalry" thing I'll betcha! The Navy can't be seen wearing the same combat uniform as the Army, It'll hurt their self esteem and esprit de corps!

Our tax dollars at work.

Sorry. You caught me in a very caustic mood today.

Cheers!

 

[Radioflyer]

I joined the Navy in August '73 and was in the very first boot company to be issued the 'new' dbl-breasted stuff at Great Lakes (October '73). The company just ahead of us got the last of the Crackerjacks.

The day after our boot graduation virtually our entire company left the base and bought their own Crackerjacks and ditched the 'new' stuff. I threw the new hat away at the train station on the way home and broke out my REAL Navy hat!

rf

 

[Story]

And, casting my cynical net wider, why does each service need their own specific cammo and BDU pattern?
Sorry. You caught me in a very caustic mood today.
!

Because nothinghas changed since Joseph Heller wrote the definative truth about the military.

There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, that specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane, he had to fly them. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of the clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.

"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka replied.

 

[VintageJess]

USMC policy on Cammies

I know we have several Military lads and lasses in the crowd. I heard recently that the navy is going to finally do away with the Cracker Jack outfit. Is this true?

I don't want to see our troops romping around in camo all day long. I know it is probably going to be inevitable, I just love seeing the pics of the days when soldiers walked about proudly in their dress blues or pinks and greens. NOw they go casual everywhere.

Matt,

You will be pleased to know that the United States Marine Corps agrees with you....Actually in the Marine Corps, the camoflauge utility uniform or "cammies" are not authorized to wear around town or really anywhere off base. I like this because that means when you see Marines traveling or conducting business in town they are typically in the service uniform or variations of the Dress Blues--usually Dress Blue Deltas or Charlies. However, the cammies tend to be the typical "Uniform of the Day" for most Marines in the fleet, and otherwise. My husband is at a desk job at Quantico now and pretty much wears the cammies everyday.


From the Marine Corps Uniform Regulations:

2007. CAMOUFLAGE UTILITY UNIFORM (See figs. 2-33 through 2-35.)
1. The camouflage utility uniform is not authorized for wear except when in the field, for field-type exercises, or for those work conditions where it is not practical to wear the service uniform.

2. The utility uniform is a working uniform. Wear of the utility uniform is authorized while commuting to and from work to include all travel aboard DOD-owned/controlled aircraft. The utility uniform may also be worn for brief and appropriate stops off-base during duty hours or while commuting. In addition to emergency/maintenance stops, Marines are allowed to make brief, essential stops off-base during duty hours and while commuting to and from their place of duty, such as:

a. when dropping off/picking up children from daycare centers or school;

b. obtaining gas or other essential driving aids (wiper blades, snow chains, fluids, lights, etc.);

c. picking up/dropping off drycleaning;

d. off-base financial institutions; to include automatic teller machines; (ALMAR 107/96)

e. picking up vehicles at repair shops or gas stations;

f. at drive-thru windows where exiting the vehicle is not required; and,

g. at a convenience store or drug store solely for the purchase of emergency childcare or health products (milk, diapers, medicine, etc.).

3. Marines are prohibited from wearing the utility uniform as a liberty uniform off-base or during inappropriate circumstances such as:

a. at restaurants, pizza parlors, bars, lounges, etc.;

b. when dealing with public officials (police, courthouse, attorneys);

c. while attending classes or activities, or conducting business at education facilities;

d. at commercial airports/bus stations for travel or entering pick/drop off passengers;

e. at retail/rental stores, shopping malls, and shops for shopping or paying bills;

f. at grocery stores/supermarkets'

g. at movie theaters, mini-golf, or other similar entertainment/
recreational or sporting activities.

4. Marines set the example. In any uniform we will maintain the highest standards of appearance -- at all times -- in all places. Exercise good judgment, if there's a doubt -- don't stop. (ALMAR 6/96)


Jessica
Proud USMC Wife

 

[Doc.Freddy]

Its true

hello Matt
Its sad but true, im an officer for the U.S. Navy and im incharge of a clinic at USMC Camp Pendleton. i recieved an action letter throw the Navy official web site that said the navy will be getting ride of 6 uniforms (tropicals, utilaties, work blues, coveralls, BDU's, and others) in the next two years. As for the dress uniform whites and blues they are not sure but ive heard that they are tring new uniforms at some naval bases. But nothing has been set in stone. Ive seen some pictures that were attachet to the action letter, but again the letter only said that they were still under construction. Well any questions please feel free to drop a line.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I looked at the navy uniform regs a couple months back and was surprised to find that even for things which could be custom-made by private tailors to navy uniform specs, the only allowable materials all contained high percentages of polyester!

Does the navy have no conception of how uncomfortable and hot polyester is? It was sort of ironic as the highest polyester uniforms were all summer uniforms, like the whites. Dress blues had a couple all-wool fabric options however.

Personally, I really wish I could be made the "uniform czar" of the American military. All branches need some work, although the Marines need the least of course.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Then put 'em back in dungarees and pea coats wearing "dixie cup" hats. Call me old fashioned, I guess.

I understand the need for desert and woodland cammo patterns for working onshore in combat situations, but why the heck do they need a blue digital cammo for shipboard use? Who are they going to need to hide from on a ship?

And, casting my cynical net wider, why does each service need their own specific cammo and BDU pattern? I read recently that the Air Force is currently testing a new blue tiger stripe pattern. Wouldn't it save an awful lot of money if they'd just pool their resources and come up with one pattern of BDU with one pattern of camouflage (woodland and desert) to be worn by everybody? Oh wait, I forgot. That "interservice rivalry" thing I'll betcha! The Navy can't be seen wearing the same combat uniform as the Army, It'll hurt their self esteem and esprit de corps!

Our tax dollars at work.

Sorry. You caught me in a very caustic mood today.

Cheers!

Bullfeathers, I still have many friends on active duty that are young and open to change. And they consider this a very positive change. Dungarees and dixie cips sucked anand still do suck. These new BDU's are great and have already proven their worth in WEARBILITY AND DURABILITY, not to mention looks. Only new recruits will be issued these anyway as the regular fleet sailors will have to buy their own.
DR

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I looked at the navy uniform regs a couple months back and was surprised to find that even for things which could be custom-made by private tailors to navy uniform specs, the only allowable materials all contained high percentages of polyester!

Does the navy have no conception of how uncomfortable and hot polyester is? It was sort of ironic as the highest polyester uniforms were all summer uniforms, like the whites. Dress blues had a couple all-wool fabric options however.

Personally, I really wish I could be made the "uniform czar" of the American military. All branches need some work, although the Marines need the least of course.

Don't kid yourself, no one enforces that rule anyway. Polyester does look better for holding a crease and sharpness but not allowed aboard ship due to the fact it would melt to your skin in a fire. I could write a book on this stuff but I won't. Most of you ahve never served anyway and have no idea what the modern day sailor goes through when it comes to the USN's hodgepodge of uniform combos. Now watch out, the US Chair Farce is thinking of going retro to the 30's with some space cadet looking dress uniforms. Now THAT is something to groan about!
DR

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

hello Matt
Its sad but true, im an officer for the U.S. Navy and im incharge of a clinic at USMC Camp Pendleton. i recieved an action letter throw the Navy official web site that said the navy will be getting ride of 6 uniforms (tropicals, utilaties, work blues, coveralls, BDU's, and others) in the next two years. As for the dress uniform whites and blues they are not sure but ive heard that they are tring new uniforms at some naval bases. But nothing has been set in stone. Ive seen some pictures that were attachet to the action letter, but again the letter only said that they were still under construction. Well any questions please feel free to drop a line.

Doc
I've been told by my enlsited friends for traditon's sake they will leave the Dress Blues alone, but the dress whites may be in danger. Others may know more........
DR
former AK1 (AW) and Blue Angels Logistics USN 1988-2001

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Matt,

You will be pleased to know that the United States Marine Corps agrees with you....Actually in the Marine Corps, the camoflauge utility uniform or "cammies" are not authorized to wear around town or really anywhere off base. I like this because that means when you see Marines traveling or conducting business in town they are typically in the service uniform or variations of the Dress Blues--usually Dress Blue Deltas or Charlies. However, the cammies tend to be the typical "Uniform of the Day" for most Marines in the fleet, and otherwise. My husband is at a desk job at Quantico now and pretty much wears the cammies everyday.


From the Marine Corps Uniform Regulations:

2007. CAMOUFLAGE UTILITY UNIFORM (See figs. 2-33 through 2-35.)
1. The camouflage utility uniform is not authorized for wear except when in the field, for field-type exercises, or for those work conditions where it is not practical to wear the service uniform.

2. The utility uniform is a working uniform. Wear of the utility uniform is authorized while commuting to and from work to include all travel aboard DOD-owned/controlled aircraft. The utility uniform may also be worn for brief and appropriate stops off-base during duty hours or while commuting. In addition to emergency/maintenance stops, Marines are allowed to make brief, essential stops off-base during duty hours and while commuting to and from their place of duty, such as:

a. when dropping off/picking up children from daycare centers or school;

b. obtaining gas or other essential driving aids (wiper blades, snow chains, fluids, lights, etc.);

c. picking up/dropping off drycleaning;

d. off-base financial institutions; to include automatic teller machines; (ALMAR 107/96)

e. picking up vehicles at repair shops or gas stations;

f. at drive-thru windows where exiting the vehicle is not required; and,

g. at a convenience store or drug store solely for the purchase of emergency childcare or health products (milk, diapers, medicine, etc.).

3. Marines are prohibited from wearing the utility uniform as a liberty uniform off-base or during inappropriate circumstances such as:

a. at restaurants, pizza parlors, bars, lounges, etc.;

b. when dealing with public officials (police, courthouse, attorneys);

c. while attending classes or activities, or conducting business at education facilities;

d. at commercial airports/bus stations for travel or entering pick/drop off passengers;

e. at retail/rental stores, shopping malls, and shops for shopping or paying bills;

f. at grocery stores/supermarkets'

g. at movie theaters, mini-golf, or other similar entertainment/
recreational or sporting activities.

4. Marines set the example. In any uniform we will maintain the highest standards of appearance -- at all times -- in all places. Exercise good judgment, if there's a doubt -- don't stop. (ALMAR 6/96)


Jessica
Proud USMC Wife

Bless your husband for serving and you for putting up with the Corps :eusa_clap
I've never understood that rule with eh USMC and their BDU's out in town, about as restrictive as the USN's rules on the old dungree and the fairly new utility uniform that will be phased out in favor of the new BDU's. I've been around the AF now both as a spouse and Civil Servant employee and they let their folks wear thier BDU's out in town. Of course you can get away with that in most places IE REd states without being harrassed, and hell usually thanked for your service. Just my opinion ya unnerstan'? OK Ive said enough on this subject, ya'll have at it.
DR

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I joined the Navy in August '73 and was in the very first boot company to be issued the 'new' dbl-breasted stuff at Great Lakes (October '73). The company just ahead of us got the last of the Crackerjacks.

The day after our boot graduation virtually our entire company left the base and bought their own Crackerjacks and ditched the 'new' stuff. I threw the new hat away at the train station on the way home and broke out my REAL Navy hat!

rf

In today's Navy, the E-6 and below would kill for that uniform.
DR

 

[Cobden]

The Royal Navy has done so many (nasty) things to it's classic Navy uniform it is ridiculous.
Abolished flat front bells with normal flyed flared trousers; creased "normally" as opposed to sideways and inside out with five or seven horizontal creases
Put zips at the front of the jumper
Collar is now buttoned onto the jumper, as opposed to tied around the waist
Silks are velcro, and come with a ready made bow attached in a woggle fashion
Abolished blue tops and jerseys for winter
And, of course, used nasty polyester instead of good old hairy serge

Even the officers have suffered; the tunics are now barathea instead of doeskin

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Don't kid yourself, no one enforces that rule anyway. Polyester does look better for holding a crease and sharpness but not allowed aboard ship due to the fact it would melt to your skin in a fire. I could write a book on this stuff but I won't. Most of you ahve never served anyway and have no idea what the modern day sailor goes through when it comes to the USN's hodgepodge of uniform combos. Now watch out, the US Chair Farce is thinking of going retro to the 30's with some space cadet looking dress uniforms. Now THAT is something to groan about!
DR

So you are saying that some officers get custom tailored uniforms out of "non-approved" materials anyway?

 

[SDS]

New Air Force Service Uniform Prototypes

The Air Force is trying to go retro with their latest plans to update their dress uniforms. Actually, what they have planned doesn't look too bad compared to the flight attendant smock they currently wear. Take a look:

How about a silver colored tie with a dark blue shirt with the service blouse? That would be pretty interesting.

 

[Zemke Fan]

Interesting options...

Thanks for sharing these photos, SDS. The top one IS very reminiscent of WWII, now if they'd just make it in a chocolate olive-brown color with optional taupe colored pants and lose those totally silly garrison caps...