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[Rmccamey]

It is my belief that, collectively, we are a very good diverse cross-section of vintage hat connoisseurs and collectors who buy, sell and trade both new and vintage hats. Has there ever been an effort to develop a standard for grading/categorizing the physical condition of hats (ie, Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor)?

 

[Steve1857]

It is my belief that, collectively, we are a very good diverse cross-section of vintage hat connoisseurs and collectors who buy, sell and trade both new and vintage hats. Has there ever been an effort to develop a standard for grading/categorizing the physical condition of hats (ie, Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor)?

Now that's a minefield in the collectors world, Randy.

There is a supposed "standard" definition of gradings in the world of collecting coins, stamps, and musical instruments for example. While the "standards" might be adhered to by collectors in the know who buy and sell, though not always, the same cannot be expected of the casual seller wanting to move an item on.

Caveat emptor is the best watch word.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Now that's a minefield in the collectors world, Randy.

There is a supposed "standard" definition of gradings in the world of collecting coins, stamps, and musical instruments for example. While the "standards" might be adhered to by collectors in the know who buy and sell, though not always, the same cannot be expected of the casual seller wanting to move an item on.

Caveat emptor is the best watch word.

I’ve seen many hats described as “mint” with minimal moth damage, staining, and dry rot in the sweatband. I’m not sure that they understood what “mint” means or if they were doing deceitful…but why then show and describe the flaws?

I suppose someone could start a business where you can send a hat to be graded prior to offering it for sale, but that doesn’t make sense on a $100-300 hat.

 

[jlee562]

Good point. I just really like Akubra. For a durable outdoor hat that will hold up against the elements I don't know any better option. So that's why.

I thought that maybe the Rough Rider might also work, although the end product might be somewhat smaller than the hat in the movie. But given that the movie hat is so enormous it could even benefit from a smaller donor.

What do you think?

I'm sure you'd be able to grab a brown western on eBay for significantly less than a new hat.

 

[wsmontana]

Yes, I agree with Jared. For example, here is a hat I picked up recently for a few bucks that would have made a good donor for a Macready hat. I turned it into a curl brim hat but I think it would have been fairly straightforward to make this into a Macready.

Good luck in your search— it looks like a fun project!

Bill

 

[Rmccamey]

Now that's a minefield in the collectors world, Randy.

There is a supposed "standard" definition of gradings in the world of collecting coins, stamps, and musical instruments for example. While the "standards" might be adhered to by collectors in the know who buy and sell, though not always, the same cannot be expected of the casual seller wanting to move an item on.

Caveat emptor is the best watch word.

I’ve seen many hats described as “mint” with minimal moth damage, staining, and dry rot in the sweatband. I’m not sure that they understood what “mint” means or if they were doing deceitful…but why then show and describe the flaws?

I suppose someone could start a business where you can send a hat to be graded prior to offering it for sale, but that doesn’t make sense on a $100-300 hat.

I suppose that is my point. I, like most users, don't care about the standards used to manufacture my Ring doorbell as long as it works. But for those in the industry, those standards make a difference in the materials and sub components they use to manufacture the doorbells. A standard to grade or rank the physical condition of hats would help those of us in the "hat collector industry" be more consistent in our description of hats and it would be easier to provide those descriptors to the general public to help educate them on how to judge the condition of hats. Such a standard would be far from perfect but it would be a start in helping us define and refine a common vocabulary and a common understanding to hopefully reduce those hats with torn sweatbands being described as "mint condition".

 

[Steve1857]

I suppose that is my point. I, like most users, don't care about the standards used to manufacture my Ring doorbell as long as it works. But for those in the industry, those standards make a difference in the materials and sub components they use to manufacture the doorbells. A standard to grade or rank the physical condition of hats would help those of us in the "hat collector industry" be more consistent in our description of hats and it would be easier to provide those descriptors to the general public to help educate them on how to judge the condition of hats. Such a standard would be far from perfect but it would be a start in helping us define and refine a common vocabulary and a common understanding to hopefully reduce those hats with torn sweatbands being described as "mint condition".

Good point, Randy.

Maybe some of the good folks on the FL could create a subcommittee and come up with some suggestions for definitions.

 

[M Hatman]

I suppose that is my point. I, like most users, don't care about the standards used to manufacture my Ring doorbell as long as it works. But for those in the industry, those standards make a difference in the materials and sub components they use to manufacture the doorbells. A standard to grade or rank the physical condition of hats would help those of us in the "hat collector industry" be more consistent in our description of hats and it would be easier to provide those descriptors to the general public to help educate them on how to judge the condition of hats. Such a standard would be far from perfect but it would be a start in helping us define and refine a common vocabulary and a common understanding to hopefully reduce those hats with torn sweatbands being described as "mint condition".

While I have sympathy for what you are saying all can be said for ANYTHING being sold anymore and especially anything antique or collectable.

Many, Many of the hats you describe are NOT going to be effected by what we say or do here. Too many are sold by people who don't know and in the case of the torn sweatband being described as "mint"...THOSE people do not care.

Like with the Ebay sellers that list hats from "Dads Collection" that are flipped from something they bought at Good Will or where a Stetson Royal Deluxe is suddenly described as the equal quality of a twenty or twenty-five of the same era.....well all I can say is the big retailers like Ebay ....neither those sellers nor Ebay is interested in accurate descriptions.....especially for or from from a niche group like ours.....the dollar is all they care about........sad but true.

There is just not enough money there (with our hats) to "do things right".....just enough to reward doing things anyway the seller wishes....."Buyer Beware". WE the buyer, need to look closely at those "Truman" hats if we want to come out even.....

 

[belfastboy]

While I have sympathy for what you are saying all can be said for ANYTHING being sold anymore and especially anything antique or collectable.

Many, Many of the hats you describe are NOT going to be effected by what we say or do here. Too many are sold by people who don't know and in the case of the torn sweatband being described as "mint"...THOSE people do not care.

Like with the Ebay sellers that list hats from "Dads Collection" that are flipped from something they bought at Good Will or where a Stetson Royal Deluxe is suddenly described as the equal quality of a twenty or twenty-five of the same era.....well all I can say is the big retailers like Ebay ....neither those sellers nor Ebay is interested in accurate descriptions.....especially for or from from a niche group like ours.....the dollar is all they care about........sad but true.

There is just not enough money there (with our hats) to "do things right".....just enough to reward doing things anyway the seller wishes....."Buyer Beware". WE the buyer, need to look closely at those "Truman" hats if we want to come out even.....

I gave up the 'hunt' for vintage after making too many mistakes. I do agree that many sellers do not care or are downright dishonest but there is another cohort that is just ignorant about hats. But whatever the reason it is still a crap hat when it reaches me. I now only pick up hats from 'known' hat people (mostly here in The Lounge). It is the only way I can be assured of accuracy in the description.

 

[Rmccamey]

Many standards exist that are not required to be used. Even though not required, they help establish a common vocabulary and common metrics among those who care to use the established standard. I think we of TFL could make that happen, whether the rest of the world followed our lead or not.

The standard I'm suggesting would be related to physical condition (more objective), not quality (more subjective). Any attempt to quantify the difference in quality between a '62 One Hundred and a '58 7XCB would be, IMO, an exercise in futility

While I have sympathy for what you are saying all can be said for ANYTHING being sold anymore and especially anything antique or collectable.

Many, Many of the hats you describe are NOT going to be effected by what we say or do here. Too many are sold by people who don't know and in the case of the torn sweatband being described as "mint"...THOSE people do not care.

Like with the Ebay sellers that list hats from "Dads Collection" that are flipped from something they bought at Good Will or where a Stetson Royal Deluxe is suddenly described as the equal quality of a twenty or twenty-five of the same era.....well all I can say is the big retailers like Ebay ....neither those sellers nor Ebay is interested in accurate descriptions.....especially for or from from a niche group like ours.....the dollar is all they care about........sad but true.

There is just not enough money there (with our hats) to "do things right".....just enough to reward doing things anyway the seller wishes....."Buyer Beware". WE the buyer, need to look closely at those "Truman" hats if we want to come out even.....

 

[crispyfresh]

I have a question about hat sizing for a fedora hat. I have a couple of "mall" quality fedoras that are both a small/medium sizing in the headband. They fit perfect. I want to move up to a higher quality fedora in which I have to have my head measurements. Whats throwing me off is the fact that when I measure my head circumference, I come up with 22 5/8 which is a large.

When I measured the headband of one of the cheap fedoras I have now, the measurement came up to 22 inches. I'm stomped as to whether I should buy a metric 56 or 57 which is a medium or a 58 which is a large. The mall quality fedora isn't spreading larger or anything. Maybe when I'm measuring with the cloth tape, the cloth tape is in a different position than the hats sit when I'm wearing them?

Late Edit: I tried on a baker boy cap I have that is a size 58. I noticed it sits lower on my head than the fedoras I have. This is leading me to want to go with a size 57 which will sit higher than the 58 but a little bit lower than the fedoras. The fedoras sit pretty high but not enough to look noticeably high.

 

[Who?]

Get someone else to measure your head.

Do it three times and average.

 

[thomasfarley19]

I found a hat and wondered if you may be able to tell who made it. The closest example of the logo on the liner is from Resistol but I can't find an example of this exact logo from them. Thoughts?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I found a hat and wondered if you may be able to tell who made it. The closest example of the logo on the liner is from Resistol but I can't find an example of this exact logo from them. Thoughts?

Sure looks like a modern Resistol to me. Do you have photos of the rest of the sweatband?

 

[thomasfarley19]

Sure looks like a modern Resistol to me. Do you have photos of the rest of the sweatband?

Here it is. With the height of the crown, it feels like an 80's or 90's era hat. I'm just not sure.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Here it is. With the height of the crown, it feels like an 80's or 90's era hat. I'm just not sure.

Thanks. I’m less sure now as those markings don’t look familiar to me. Maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in.

 

[Steve1857]

Here it is. With the height of the crown, it feels like an 80's or 90's era hat. I'm just not sure.

It looks like the Resistol Horseman trademark. However, if it doesn't say Resistol anywhere, I doubt that it is.

 

[thomasfarley19]

It looks like the Resistol Horseman trademark. However, if it doesn't say Resistol anywhere, I doubt that it is.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. It's about the finest fur felt that I have touched. So I find it hard to believe the manufacturer didn't take credit, but that's the boat I'm in.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

That's kind of what I'm thinking. It's about the finest fur felt that I have touched. So I find it hard to believe the manufacturer didn't take credit, but that's the boat I'm in.

Have you turned the sweatband down and looked behind it for clues?

 

[Blare]

It looks like the Resistol Horseman trademark. However, if it doesn't say Resistol anywhere, I doubt that it is.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. It's about the finest fur felt that I have touched. So I find it hard to believe the manufacturer didn't take credit, but that's the boat I'm in.

Resistol did at one point do private label work. I have one made for Beal Brothers dept stores. As Brent said maybe the tags under the sweat might give more insight.