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[Rmccamey]

Yep, looks like a lot more marketing than hat. But, that's what the big schools are all about! (ps, I've spent my share of $ at TAM, too!)

Ive been waiting for in focus pictures and more info on the model and quality level . My impression is that its just a 6x western style. Holding out hope its a decent hat at a decent price. Im a serious Texas Aggie, but Im afraid a Maroon ribbon and cheesy script "Aggies" pin would get taken off and replaced with something a bit more refined. For the price of a new Stetson, I can buy a really nice, clean vintage 3x Open Road and put a nice ribbon with an A&M Former Students Association or Aggie Band lapel pin on... (A&M has received a lot of my money over 50 yrs... I should get a discount lol). I will admit if they have an Open Road 6x with a Texas A&M embossed sweatband, Ill probably pick one up... I COULD use an updated Aggie hat! View attachment 728291

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

Good day frens ..

I am considering an Aero Irvin for winter. I am curious what's the lowest it can hold temperature wise with just a light sweater or shirt. I get it it's a bit subjective. However, I am curious about experiences. May be it's a general idea that anything lower than -10 would need something warmer.

It does say it is a 0.75 inch thick shearling.

https://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/british-armed-forces/raf--pre-war/military021


Lemme know!

Hi there,
This thread is for questions about hats. You should ask your question here instead:

Ask a Question, Get An Answer About Outerwear

I agree it's a relaxed pattern. I like my jackets slim and this one isn't, although I like the way it fits. Mine is quite short , the bottom hem just covers the belt. It's also one of the most comfortable of my Aero jackets (the other being a type 3). Every time I wear it, I know I'll keep it...

www.thefedoralounge.com

 

[jlee562]

Yep, looks like a lot more marketing than hat. But, that's what the big schools are all about! (ps, I've spent my share of $ at TAM, too!)

I saw on Stetson's Instagram that they did some on campus events (well, at least one) where some of the athletes got the team logo and their number branded onto their hats.

 

[Jimmy__patt]

Hey guys, I have this old Borsalino I picked up and I need the sweatband repaired. I live in Staten Island NY. Can anyone please recommend where I can send the hat to for repair?

 

[jeffgarf]

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/ask-a-question-get-an-answer.41576/post-3203360

Similar answers, I'd assume.

 

[suitedcboy]

What decade did Stetson use the checkered liner pattern white satin. I was thinking it was late 60s into early 70s. Is that the window of time or was it later? Thanks.

 

[belfastboy]

Hey guys, I have this old Borsalino I picked up and I need the sweatband repaired. I live in Staten Island NY. Can anyone please recommend where I can send the hat to for repair?

I would check with Tim at Purebeaverhatsupply. He is likely to know of a hatter on the east coast willing to do this work.

 

[blewnote]

Here's one that's a bit of an enigma to me, hoping someone can shed some light on exactly what I have on my hands.

It appears to be a homburg, but is not labelled as a St. Regis. It is a Royal DeLuxe, but the liner does not mark it as such. The sweatband is light tan, great leather, but about an 1/8 of an inch less wide than my St. Regis from the 1950s. There's no blocking info in it whatsoever and the liner appears to be mostly glued in. The size tag leads me to believe it's from the 1960s (because it has the full Stetson name and 7 1/4 instead of just 1/4 but is still on manila cardstock in a keyhole shape). The felt is fine, not as nice as the earlier St. Regis I have but not bad. However, the shape of the brim is odd.... shorter all around but especially on the sides and more curled up than the earlier model.

I did some digging to see if there was any info on a stingy brim Stetson homburg, but although Stetson made homburgs without a name prior to the St. Regis, I can't see any models made after the St. Regis. The brim seems more reminiscent of a bowler to me but while the brim is stiffer than the my St. Regis it's not as stiff as an Adam bowler I have, and the crown, while stiffer than the St. Regis is soft and shapeable and does not look like a bowler when in open form. I'm a bit perplexed. Anyone have any ideas?

It also has a weird structure to the brim... unlike the St. Regis where the edge is completely covered by the binding, there is a welt outside of the binding as shown below (included a picture of the St Regis brim for illustration of difference).

 

[blewnote]

Here are some pictures of it and the St Regis from above.

And here is a picture of the Adam bowler I have, and then a picture of them next to each other (Stetson is on the right).

 

[Blare]

Here are some pictures of it and the St Regis from above.

View attachment 731258 View attachment 731259 View attachment 731260


And here is a picture of the Adam bowler I have, and then a picture of them next to each other (Stetson is on the right).

View attachment 731261 View attachment 731262

I believe It’s a bit shorter brimmed homburg most likely from very late 1950s to very early 1960s In my opinion with that mixed number keyhole size tag. More than likely one of the many non-model named numbers (at least on the hat itself) Stetson was churning out around that time.

 

[blewnote]

I believe It’s a bit shorter brimmed homburg most likely from very late 1950s to very early 1960s In my opinion with that mixed number keyhole size tag. More than likely one of the many non-model named numbers (at least on the hat itself) Stetson was churning out around that time.

Yeah, I figured it was in that time range based on the good leather sweatband and decent felt and size tag. Just was curious if anyone remembered seeing ad copy that was similar or had run across one like it and knew more about its provenance.

I brought up the bowler similarities because I have a faint memory of reading that in the late 50s/early 60s there may be some examples of hats that were hybrid homburg/bowlers, but can't remember where I saw it or what the reasoning behind it would have been.

 

[Rmccamey]

At times, based on the whims of the manufacturer's I suppose, some homburgs were made with a much more folded or exaggerated side curl giving them a D'Orsay-like appearance aka your bowler.

Yeah, I figured it was in that time range based on the good leather sweatband and decent felt and size tag. Just was curious if anyone remembered seeing ad copy that was similar or had run across one like it and knew more about its provenance.

I brought up the bowler similarities because I have a faint memory of reading that in the late 50s/early 60s there may be some examples of hats that were hybrid homburg/bowlers, but can't remember where I saw it or what the reasoning behind it would have been.

 

[The Hatted Professor]

I brought up the bowler similarities because I have a faint memory of reading that in the late 50s/early 60s there may be some examples of hats that were hybrid homburg/bowlers, but can't remember where I saw it or what the reasoning behind it would have been.

You might be thinking of the Derby Revival of 1958-1959 here in the US. The Derbies were soft-crowned, though they weren’t meant to be creased. It was simply more expedient to manufacture. But the Derbies of those years barely resemble the classic Derbies of old. The crown profile is wrong, they have a simple brim curl, not a D,Orsay curl, and the binding stitching is done by machine, rather than hand-stitched with hidden stitches. The Derbies of the revival era are more like any modern Derby made today, with the exception of the bowlers made by Christy or Lock & Co. Those are closer to a classic hat, though they don’t have the same classic D’Orsay curl on the front and rear.

 

[blewnote]

You might be thinking of the Derby Revival of 1958-1959 here in the US. The Derbies were soft-crowned, though they weren’t meant to be creased. It was simply more expedient to manufacture. But the Derbies of those years barely resemble the classic Derbies of old. The crown profile is wrong, they have a simple brim curl, not a D,Orsay curl, and the binding stitching is done by machine, rather than hand-stitched with hidden stitches. The Derbies of the revival era are more like any modern Derby made today, with the exception of the bowlers made by Christy or Lock & Co. Those are closer to a classic hat, though they don’t have the same classic D’Orsay curl on the front and rear.

Do you think that this may be an example of that then, because I'm inclined to think it is. I keep trying to capture what I'm seeing in person with my camera but it is difficult. All of my homburgs have sides that curl in towards the crown a little more than in the front and back, but on the hat in question although the front/back are similar to my homburgs, the sides curl in much more towards the crown. This makes it look much more like a derby, but the crown profile is not as straight in the front and back.

On the derby I have it has an almost flat thin brim in the front with a very short curl straight up and very pronounced curls on the sides that point almost straight at the crown, I assume this is the D'Orsay curl? If so, what is the characteristic that defines the D'Orsay curl as being different than the curl (pencil?) used for the Homburg? Is it the severe shape of the curl that points towards the crown on the sides and how they cause the brim to appear to swoop up in the middle, or is it the increasing curl from the front/back to the mid points? I ask because although I read through your Derby Deconstruction I'm still not sure what defines the D'Orsay in particular (and my GoogleFu is failing me).

Anyway, here's some pictures of the back and side of an Adam derby, the unknown Stetson, and a St Regis, with a tape measure included to show the difference in dimensions of each. Perhaps this is a better indication of what I'm seeing.

Derby:

Unknown Stetson:

St Regis:

And here is another picture of the welt underneath the curl on the unknown Stetson, which appears to be rather similar to the one posted in your derby deconstruction post.

From your blog:

 

[The Hatted Professor]

Yours is definitely a homburg, because the ribbon is usually 13 or 14 lignes tall on a derby, whereas homburgs are usually 20 to 24 lignes. Granted, in the nineteenth and first few years of the twentieth century you could find taller ribbons on derbies per the styling, but for the rest of the twentieth century they standardized on the shorter one. It's one of the defining features of a derby. This is a Stetson derby from the 1910s.

As for the D'Orsay, the side curls could be fairly flat (pointing back at the crown) or not quite as curled in, depending on the style of the derby and the person curling the brim, but what sets it apart from any other curl is the front and rear, which is why the front/rear tolliker is the key to making proper D'Orsay curl and why they aren't done today, beside the time factor. The front and rear curl is straight up and usually no taller than ⅛ of an inch., as shown in this photo of the deconstructed derby.

This photo also shows the insane amount of shellac on the trimmed brim, which is why they had bindings in the first place, to cover the white shellac. This Stetson also has a ⅛ inch front and rear curl. This is all achieved with a dimensionally cut brim, where the sides are cut wider than the front and rear. The makes it so that when the D'Orsay is applied, the brim appears to be the same width all the way around. If you try to make a D'Orsay curl out of, say, a modern Stetson derby, the brim will be wider in the front and rear, as I showed in my post somewhere around 2020, when I took a modern Stetson derby and attempted to give it a D'Orsay curl. It just looks funny.

By 1958, when derbies enjoyed their brief revival, most manufacturers no longer had front/rear tollikers, nor did they have anyone skilled enough to use them. One exception might be Cavanagh. So, derbies from around 1958 to the present employ what's essentially the same curl as a homburg.

As for the welt you're seeing, there are two ways to sew the ribbon to the inside of the curl. One leaves the edge of the folded ribbon on the outside where it is visible, as in your hat, and the other way, the more common and perhaps proper way has the fold on the inside, where it is hidden. That's what you should see on the front and rear, as it shows no stitches because they are hidden underneath where the ribbon is folder back over the outside of the brim, as shown here.

As for the

 

[blewnote]

Yours is definitely a homburg, because the ribbon is usually 13 or 14 lignes tall on a derby, whereas homburgs are usually 20 to 24 lignes. Granted, in the nineteenth and first few years of the twentieth century you could find taller ribbons on derbies per the styling, but for the rest of the twentieth century they standardized on the shorter one. It's one of the defining features of a derby. This is a Stetson derby from the 1910s.

As for the welt you're seeing, there are two ways to sew the ribbon to the inside of the curl. One leaves the edge of the folded ribbon on the outside where it is visible, as in your hat, and the other way, the more common and perhaps proper way has the fold on the inside, where it is hidden. That's what you should see on the front and rear, as it shows no stitches because they are hidden underneath where the ribbon is folder back over the outside of the brim, as shown here.

Roger that. A homburg it is I guess, as strange as its styling seems to be.

Thanks for the clarification of the D'Orsay curl, it makes more sense now!

I'm still curious about this welt (or whatever it is, I may not be using the right terminology) that is outside of the edge binding ribbon. I don't quite understand what you mean with regards to the ribbon being folded over and an edge being hidden or not. The edge of the ribbon on the inside of the curl is not visible unless I straighten out the curl, and appears hidden just as on my other homburgs.

What I'm talking about is the extra welt of felt outside of the ribbon on this newer hat, which is visible at a particular angle or if you flip the curl out to see inside it. It appeared to be similar to the feature seen on the derby of yours I included a picture of in my last post which is why I brought it up.

Here are a couple more to illustrate my point. You can see that the ribbon terminates before the welt. Is that the edge of the brim that was folded over and the ribbon just didn't actually cover it fully?

Ah... well while I was looking at these photos I noticed that in front of the hat, where there is minimal curl, the "welt" is well formed and on the side where there is much curl it appears to be more ragged, so while trying to get a better look at it I realized (because it popped out of whatever it was underneath) that the round shape present is actually coming from a piece of wire either sewn in or inserted under the felt. So perhaps it is in fact a derby from this revival in the 1958-1959?

I realize it's not the best picture of it, but I am now worried about causing more damage to the hat by continuing to poke about under the brim, so this will have to do.

 

[The Hatted Professor]

I see what you're talking about now. That's an interesting way to do the wire, one that I haven't encountered. Still, I think it's a homburg unless someone changed out the hat band ribbon.

I've drawn a quick and dirty diagram of the two different ways to sew on the binding.

 

[blewnote]

I see what you're talking about now. That's an interesting way to do the wire, one that I haven't encountered. Still, I think it's a homburg unless someone changed out the hat band ribbon.

I've drawn a quick and dirty diagram of the two different ways to sew on the binding. View attachment 731587

I see you what mean, thanks! I was confused because we were talking about two different things.

Thanks for all your insights, I suppose you're probably right about the labelling, although it's one weird duck in my opinion. Really at a loss as to why a homburg would need a wire in the brim, and why they would curl the sides so severely as to give echoes of a derby! Who can guess at the motivations of a Stetson hat designer from almost 70 years ago. Anyway, thanks again.

 

[Streak]

I have a number of Akubra hats mainly inspired by the characters on various TV shows. The current one that interests me is the hat worn by Joe Leaphorn in Dark winds.
Reading here and in other places the general consensus is that it could be a variation of the Stetson Open Road although the OR does not have a leather hat band. The Akubra folks say that the closest of theirs could be the campdraft also without leather hat band. With the new ownership of Akubra prices are way higher than they used to be and it's no longer attractive to order from Australia (I am in the US) which I would have taken a chance even of the campdraft was not perfect. Right now the campdraft is $240 from the US distributor and the OR is $315 and I would still need to find a leather hat band.
What are your suggestions for a hat that would most closely resemble the Leaphorn hat?

 

[DogFacePonySoldier]

With vintage hats the size listed on the tags can be deceiving. Hats (actually the leather sweatbands) stretch and shrink. If its a bit tight just wear it a couple of time and you may find it stretches back out. If it's a bit loose wear it a couple times sweating into the sweatband. It may very well shrink to fit.

I have this papa nui shinki A2 is very nice. I messed up and got New Era sizing as oppose to using my head circumference, which fits M. However when I tried the M in store at Standard and Strange it didn’t fit. B4 purchasing Papa Nui Ig said get the larger one and soak, I don’t think I have my circumference size

I got the large months later and kinda messed up the sides by steaming the inside and give way to some crackling. Then realized I did it wrong and should be hot water soaking.

Anyway you guys think this shinki leather hat will shrink with more soaks and time. I use hat filler but i kinda feel like Charlie Brown. Since the hat should have a more tighter feel. I can stuff my fingers on the back of the cap when wearing so there’s a lot of room and fits loosely.