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[Zombie_61]

Here is my humble contribution to the practiced eye test.

I happen to have two Stetson Temple Fedoras up on the bay — one is 6 7/8 and the other is 7 7/8. Brims are 2 5/8 on each.

Which is 7 7/8, A or B?

Good luck!

Bill

View attachment 447241



View attachment 447242

I'm going with "A" as the 6-7/8, because the crown on "B" appears to be just a bit larger to me. But I'm probably wrong.

 

[Who?]

No clue here.

With a 50/50 chance, I get it wrong about 80% of the time.

 

[wsmontana]

I’m going with B as the 7 7/8. The second photo of “A” alone has me convinced: if that were the 7 7/8 the brim width would need to be over three inches to be proportional and not 2 5/8. That said, I’ve been wrong more than once before.


View attachment 447248

You got it!

 

[wsmontana]

B is 7 7/8.

yep!

 

[wsmontana]

I'm going with "A" as the 6-7/8, because the crown on "B" appears to be just a bit larger to me. But I'm probably wrong.

no, you got it right!

 

[wsmontana]

No clue here.

With a 50/50 chance, I get it wrong about 80% of the time.

but if you didn’t have bad luck you’d have no luck at all ;-)

 

[wearinghats]

If you are asking a question seeking direction on how to proceed then this thread would be appropriate.

Ok, perfect. Well here it goes! I purchased a Stetson hat recently, and had reached out to Stetson for clarity regarding the material the hat was made from. Their website had said it was made from Beaver, and other stores had said wool. Stetson confirmed with me that the hat is in fact made from Beaver. I purchased the hat from a store that had it in stock, only to find out when it arrived that it is actually made of wool. I spoke with the same person at stetson and they told me their hat is made of Beaver, so I was worried that I had a fake. It turns out the person I was speaking with doesn't know what they're talking about and the hat is made from wool. I spoke with someone else at stetson that basically told me that I would have to pay a lot more for a beaver hat and that if I didn't like the hat, I should try and work something out with the store to return it, or he said that I could sell it really quick on Ebay. This wasn't a very supportive response in my opinion.

One problem is that the store I bought it from is really far away and will cost me too much to ship back, plus they will only give me store credit. I also don't think it's good business practice on stetson's behalf to just tell someone that it's still a good hat and if I don't like it, just sell it on ebay. I've tried speaking with a few people at stetson, but I'm not getting anywhere because apparently, I'm just speaking with an online store that has no way to put me in touch with someone at stetson that can sort out this situation. I personally feel that stetson should take responsibility for providing me with false information, and help me get this sorted out. If anyone has any ideas, or possibly has a contact at stetson that I could reach out to that would be great! If you need more information or have any questions I can disclose more, but that's what I'll start with! Thanks for listening.

 

[Who?]

Just out of vulgar curiosity, where are you, and where is the store?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

What hat did you buy? Can you post photos of the hat?

I’m not sure you have any recourse if Stetson doesn’t want to make it right.

 

[jeff]

Ok, perfect. Well here it goes! I purchased a Stetson hat recently, and had reached out to Stetson for clarity regarding the material the hat was made from. Their website had said it was made from Beaver, and other stores had said wool. Stetson confirmed with me that the hat is in fact made from Beaver.

Might I ask how expensive a hat we're talking about? If I spent $700 on a hat that I was lead to believe was 100% pure beaver, and got an all wool hat, yes - I'd be livid, and demanding the store fix things.

But if it's a $50 hat? I'm not sure how much time you want to put into fighting to claw that money back .

So, while I completely agree that the person at Stetson screwed up, it wasn't the store's fault -- they didn't tell you that it was made of beaver - Stetson did. But Stetson didn't sell it to you. Gah!

One option: if you paid with a credit card, you could call them up and said that the company who makes the item misrepresented the materials in manufacture, and the store selling it won't refund the money and are demanding you pay return shipping - even though the misrepresentation wasn't your fault. The credit card company will then contact the store and push for the refund.

I've done this maybe a half dozen times in my life (although never for a hat) and the credit card company has always sided with me.

Another option: tweet to @StetsonUSA explaining what happened (in as few words as possible) and see if they respond. I've had very good luck when you publically shame a company, as compared when you keep it private with some support person.

 

[wearinghats]

What hat did you buy? Can you post photos of the hat?

I’m not sure you have any recourse if Stetson doesn’t want to make it right.

Hi Brent,
I bought a navy blue midtown stetson. Here is a screenshot of the stetson page for the hat and the wrong info, which they have since changed once I brought it up with a sales rep that I had gotten the wrong info from stetson about my hat. The frustrating thing was, when I spoke the manager of the person who provided me with the wrong info, she said I don't see any mention of beaver on our website, but I told her that they had changed the info since I mentioned it to this stetson sales rep. Pretty frustrating conversation as she basically said it wasn't her problem so she wasn't going to help. I didn't even get an apology note from the person that was adamant that this hat is beaver. I should share the emails I received actually:

first one:
Thank you for contacting Stetson!
The Midtown Wide Flat Brim Hat is made out of fur felt ( beaver). If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.

Sincerely,
--
Destiny

second one:
I am very sorry unfortunately we here can only advise information regarding our products here. We are unable to explain why the product received says 100% Wool as ours are not. If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.

Sincerely,
--
Destiny
Stetson Online

Jeff,
that's a great idea reaching out to my credit card company as a start. Thanks for that. I've been holding off on social media, with the hopes that this stetson rep would respond, but it's been a week at this point, and I'm feeling like everyone I've talked to that works for stetson so far has been unhelpful. I'll try visa first though and then go from there.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hi Brent,
I bought a navy blue midtown stetson. Here is a screenshot of the stetson page for the hat and the wrong info, which they have since changed once I brought it up with a sales rep that I had gotten the wrong info from stetson about my hat. The frustrating thing was, when I spoke the manager of the person who provided me with the wrong info, she said I don't see any mention of beaver on our website, but I told her that they had changed the info since I mentioned it to this stetson sales rep. Pretty frustrating conversation as she basically said it wasn't her problem so she wasn't going to help. I didn't even get an apology note from the person that was adamant that this hat is beaver. I should share the emails I received actually:

first one:
Thank you for contacting Stetson!
The Midtown Wide Flat Brim Hat is made out of fur felt ( beaver). If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.

Sincerely,
--
Destiny

second one:
I am very sorry unfortunately we here can only advise information regarding our products here. We are unable to explain why the product received says 100% Wool as ours are not. If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.

Sincerely,
--
Destiny
Stetson Online

Jeff,
that's a great idea reaching out to my credit card company as a start. Thanks for that. I've been holding off on social media, with the hopes that this stetson rep would respond, but it's been a week at this point, and I'm feeling like everyone I've talked to that works for stetson so far has been unhelpful. I'll try visa first though and then go from there.

Bummer that Stetson isn’t doing the right thing to fix their mistake.

In the future, when it says “fur felt” it almost always means rabbit and/or hare. Beaver is expensive and not commonly used on hats not costing hundreds of dollars. Even the “5X Beaver Quality” etc. hats from the 1960s to the 2000s are mostly all rabbit or hare with just a small (undisclosed) amount of beaver mixed in. Lots of good fur felt hats don’t have any beaver in them.

 

[jlee562]

Hi Brent,
I bought a navy blue midtown stetson. Here is a screenshot of the stetson page for the hat and the wrong info, which they have since changed once I brought it up with a sales rep that I had gotten the wrong info from stetson about my hat. The frustrating thing was, when I spoke the manager of the person who provided me with the wrong info, she said I don't see any mention of beaver on our website, but I told her that they had changed the info since I mentioned it to this stetson sales rep. Pretty frustrating conversation as she basically said it wasn't her problem so she wasn't going to help. I didn't even get an apology note from the person that was adamant that this hat is beaver. I should share the emails I received actually:

first one:
Thank you for contacting Stetson!
The Midtown Wide Flat Brim Hat is made out of fur felt ( beaver). If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.

Sincerely,
--
Destiny

second one:
I am very sorry unfortunately we here can only advise information regarding our products here. We are unable to explain why the product received says 100% Wool as ours are not. If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.

Sincerely,
--
Destiny
Stetson Online

Jeff,
that's a great idea reaching out to my credit card company as a start. Thanks for that. I've been holding off on social media, with the hopes that this stetson rep would respond, but it's been a week at this point, and I'm feeling like everyone I've talked to that works for stetson so far has been unhelpful. I'll try visa first though and then go from there.

This is the "before" screenshot? That doesn't say beaver anywhere.

If it's sized s/m/l, it's not beaver. Most fur felt hats aren't even sized s/m/l.

TBH, I don't think you have any recourse unless you work something out with the store. Chalk this one up to caveat emptor. There is no Stetson to contact, in a certain manner of speaking. The hats are made by Hatco, licensed under the Stetson brand. Even if you could contact 'Stetson' what are they supposed to do? They're an office in New York. What is Hatco supposed to do? They just make the hats under license.

You bought it from a retailer. Did that retailer advertise it as fur felt or beaver? Or did they say it was wool?

It's unfortunate that you were given incorrect info by the Stetson.com rep, but as they informed you, they are a third party. The person answering emails might not even work for directly for the same company that runs the website. Other than the satisfaction of an apology, what are they supposed to do about your transaction with the retailer?

 

[The Shoe]

This is the "before" screenshot? That doesn't say beaver anywhere.

If it's sized s/m/l, it's not beaver. Most fur felt hats aren't even sized s/m/l.

TBH, I don't think you have any recourse unless you work something out with the store. Chalk this one up to caveat emptor. There is no Stetson to contact, in a certain manner of speaking. The hats are made by Hatco, licensed under the Stetson brand. Even if you could contact 'Stetson' what are they supposed to do? They're an office in New York. What is Hatco supposed to do? They just make the hats under license.

You bought it from a retailer. Did that retailer advertise it as fur felt or beaver? Or did they say it was wool?

It's unfortunate that you were given incorrect info by the Stetson.com rep, but as they informed you, they are a third party. The person answering emails might not even work for directly for the same company that runs the website. Other than the satisfaction of an apology, what are they supposed to about your transaction with the retailer?

It does clearly say fur felt on the screen shot.
I was very close to buying this Christys’ Exclusive Fur Felt Trilby some time back. I almost purchased it without reading the description. Fortunately, just before pulling the trigger, I did read the description that states “Made from our high-quality wool felt…”. I double checked with Christys’ and they confirmed that it was, in fact, wool. I told them at the time that had I purchased it, I would have sent it straight back. The reply I got was something like “but it says wool in the description”.

 

[jlee562]

It does clearly say fur felt on the screen shot.
I was very close to buying this Christys’ Exclusive Fur Felt Trilby some time back. I almost purchased it without reading the description. Fortunately, just before pulling the trigger, I did read the description that states “Made from our high-quality wool felt…”. I double checked with Christys’ and they confirmed that it was, in fact, wool. I told them at the time that had I purchased it, I would have sent it straight back. The reply I got was something like “but it says wool in the description”. View attachment 447654

Indeed, but the OP seems to have transposed "fur felt" into "website had said it was made from Beaver."

This can be an object lesson/"if it walks like a duck." The hat in question is the Stetson Midtown, retail price $130.00, comes sized s/m/l/xl.

The price should have been the first tip off. The Pure Open Road has a $410 list price (available from some retailers like our friends at One2 Mini Ranch for $350). The Pinnacle, which has long been the highest quality dress felt in the lineup (hence the name) retails for $355. The Royal quality Stratoliner is $195.

With the exception of the Runabout travel hat, AFAIK, there is currently no fur felt Stetson that is sized as s/m/l/xl. I think this is generally applicable to modern hats. Conversely, there are no wool hats in the Stetson lineup that come in proper sizes.

Why the .com person thought it was beaver is unknown, and it would obviously be reasonable to assume that the Stetson.com person would know the product line-up. But a $130 s/m/l hat made out of beaver felt? That doesn't pass the smell test, so to speak.

I don't mean to be harsh about it, but the .com person is right, it's not their problem if the OP bought the hat from another retailer. If they had bought from Stetson online after the rep said it was beaver, then it would be a situation in which the online company should make amends. It's perhaps poor form for them to not offer a cursory apology for giving incorrect information, but I don't see how they would be on the hook for 'righting' anything in a transaction between the OP and a retailer, especially if said retailer was not advertising said hat as being beaver and/or fur felt.

 

[The Shoe]

Indeed, but the OP seems to have transposed "fur felt" into "website had said it was made from Beaver."

This can be an object lesson/"if it walks like a duck." The hat in question is the Stetson Midtown, retail price $130.00, comes sized s/m/l/xl.

The price should have been the first tip off. The Pure Open Road has a $410 list price (available from some retailers like our friends at One2 Mini Ranch for $350). The Pinnacle, which has long been the highest quality dress felt in the lineup (hence the name) retails for $355. The Royal quality Stratoliner is $195.

With the exception of the Runabout travel hat, AFAIK, there is currently no fur felt Stetson that is sized as s/m/l/xl. I think this is generally applicable to modern hats. Conversely, there are no wool hats in the Stetson lineup that come in proper sizes.

Why the .com person thought it was beaver is unknown, and it would obviously be reasonable to assume that the Stetson.com person would know the product line-up. But a $130 s/m/l hat made out of beaver felt? That doesn't pass the smell test, so to speak.

I don't mean to be harsh about it, but the .com person is right, it's not their problem if the OP bought the hat from another retailer. If they had bought from Stetson online after the rep said it was beaver, then it would be a situation in which the online company should make amends. It's perhaps poor form for them to not offer a cursory apology for giving incorrect information, but I don't see how they would be on the hook for 'righting' anything in a transaction between the OP and a retailer, especially if said retailer was not advertising said hat as being beaver and/or fur felt.

Agree with everything you’ve said, and you are a lot more knowledgeable about the Stetson range than I.
That said, the shop that sold a wool hat as fur felt (beaver or not) surely bears responsibility here and should give a proper refund. The first hat I bought through Christys’ was a fur felt on sale for a similar price to the one in the screenshot I posted, and I was very happy with it. That’s why I almost purchased without reading the description and didn’t question whether it was actually fur felt. Had I gone ahead and made the purchase, I would have been pushing pretty hard for a refund upon receiving a wool hat.

 

[wearinghats]

This is the "before" screenshot? That doesn't say beaver anywhere.

If it's sized s/m/l, it's not beaver. Most fur felt hats aren't even sized s/m/l.

TBH, I don't think you have any recourse unless you work something out with the store. Chalk this one up to caveat emptor. There is no Stetson to contact, in a certain manner of speaking. The hats are made by Hatco, licensed under the Stetson brand. Even if you could contact 'Stetson' what are they supposed to do? They're an office in New York. What is Hatco supposed to do? They just make the hats under license.

You bought it from a retailer. Did that retailer advertise it as fur felt or beaver? Or did they say it was wool?

It's unfortunate that you were given incorrect info by the Stetson.com rep, but as they informed you, they are a third party. The person answering emails might not even work for directly for the same company that runs the website. Other than the satisfaction of an apology, what are they supposed to do about your transaction with the retailer?

Hi Jared,
I emailed Stetson to clarify this and was told that it was in fact Beaver. Again, they even claimed that this hat is beaver, when I confronted them with the hat I received that says 100% wool. If the Stetson company is telling me that it is Beaver, then I should be able to believe them that what they are telling me is true.

 

[wearinghats]

Agree with everything you’ve said, and you are a lot more knowledgeable about the Stetson range than I.
That said, the shop that sold a wool hat as fur felt (beaver or not) surely bears responsibility here and should give a proper refund. The first hat I bought through Christys’ was a fur felt on sale for a similar price to the one in the screenshot I posted, and I was very happy with it. That’s why I almost purchased without reading the description and didn’t question whether it was actually fur felt. Had I gone ahead and made the purchase, I would have been pushing pretty hard for a refund upon receiving a wool hat.

Again, I did reach out to Stetson to clarify the material and received these responses as I have already mentioned:
first one:
Thank you for contacting Stetson!
The Midtown Wide Flat Brim Hat is made out of fur felt ( beaver). If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.
Sincerely,
--
Destiny
second one:
I am very sorry unfortunately we here can only advise information regarding our products here. We are unable to explain why the product received says 100% Wool as ours are not. If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.
Sincerely,
--
Destiny
Stetson Online

 

[Frunobulax]

Hi Jared,
I emailed Stetson to clarify this and was told that it was in fact Beaver. Again, they even claimed that this hat is beaver, when I confronted them with the hat I received that says 100% wool. If the Stetson company is telling me that it is Beaver, then I should be able to believe them that what they are telling me is true.

Well, OK, but they are still a third party to the transaction. No $$$ changed from your hands to theirs, so what are they to do?

If I tell you the hat you're preparing to buy at Del Monico is beaver and I'm wrong, I have no responsibility to make the transaction right. Again, the people you bought the hat from represented the item accurately. You chose to believe a third party.

And also again, there is no Stetson Company, it folded in 1970 and sold it's assets and naming rights. It's currently owned by Hatco, which I think is even owned by somebody even bigger (and is probably part of the Illuminati). Further, the site which sells directly from Stetson is likely a separate entity licensed by Hatco to sell the Stetson brand. The person you talked to is sitting in a call center and probably has only a limited knowledge of the products - essentially a store clerk.

I think this is a "Live and Learn" situation.

 

[The Shoe]

Again, I did reach out to Stetson to clarify the material and received these responses as I have already mentioned:
first one:
Thank you for contacting Stetson!
The Midtown Wide Flat Brim Hat is made out of fur felt ( beaver). If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.
Sincerely,
--
Destiny
second one:
I am very sorry unfortunately we here can only advise information regarding our products here. We are unable to explain why the product received says 100% Wool as ours are not. If there is anything that we can further assist with, please do not hesitate in contacting us again.
Sincerely,
--
Destiny
Stetson Online

Yes, I understand that, but what is it that you want? If you want Stetson to sort it out, as others have said, you might not have much recourse. But if you just want it sorted, go back to the shop. After all, you purchased a hat clearly marked as fur felt on the website and you did not get a fur felt hat. Surely taking issue with that is your best avenue. I would be taking it up with the shop.